Gazza's Stuff

[Mortis57]

Good stuff there and the kind of Nerdism I try to achieve.

As a follow up, this chart (from Schiffer's Panzer Truppen Vol.2 1943-45 p.91) shows the various tanks that Panzer Regiment 11 had on certain days during Operation Citadel.

[Olfarty]

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[Tanker Mike]

Yep, over the years I've spent plenty of time pulling my hair out (and there's not much left!) trying to find good info on the actual organisation of various German units (eg. 21 Pz Div & 12 SS Pz Div in Normandy. More recently LSSAH at Kursk).

Check out these websites.

http://niehorster.org/
https://www.sturmpanzer.com/Default.

If you can find this series of books, they are quite interesting.

Panzer divisions - Panzergrenadier divisions - Panzer brigades of the army and the Waffen SS in the west : autumn 1944 - February 1945, Ardennes and Nordwind, their detailed and precise strengths and organisations" by Jeff Dugdale

NORMANDY 1944: GERMAN MILITARY ORGNIZATION, COMBAT POWER AND ORGANIZATIONAL EFFECTIVNESS By Niklas Zetterling

[Mortis57]

For the most part, I use the MicroMark lists by Mark Bevis (sultanbev on this forum). They're available from Wargames Vault or, if you're old-fashioned like me, directly from him. They vary from the generic (such as German Panzer Division 1944) to the specific (e.g. Kampfgruppe Krafft, Arnhem, 19th Sep’44) and cover a number of periods. I have a catalogue of his WWII lists here. It's out of date though as I've just found three more sets of additions to his lists on Wargames Vault. I guess I need to download and add them to my various catalogues.

In case you take a look at that catalogue and wonder what the colouring is for. Code & Description in yellow means I have that list, if it's just the code in yellow it means I'm interested in getting the list. If the code is red it means that the list has been update since I bought it (and I probably should get an updated version).

My armies tend towards theoretical maximum organisation with optional vehicles/units to cover other units. For example, my 1944/45 British army is based on 11th Armoured Division with options for later months (such as the introduction of Comets) and other options to cover the Guards, Poles, and (to a limited extent) 7th Armoured Divisions. I say limited for the latter as I'd need quite a number more Cromwells to cover the main tank companies as well as those in the Armoured Recce.

As Tanker Mike says there are any number of good (and bad) websites and books out there. But I can be rather lazy in that regard and if someone else has already done the hard work I don't mind spending a pound or two on a list. Mind you, it can get expensive and/or out of hand over time.

[Mortis57]

Back to the painting...

I just managed to make my last tinlet of matt varnish last to varnish a couple of companies of Jordanian Centurions. I still to finish the BHQ and third company. To that I end I need to order a couple of tanks and half a dozen turrets to replace those lost in a house move or two. The company at the bottom (mostly - there's one lurking at the top as they're slightly wider than the Scotia model) is of the newer H&R Centurion. Which, hopefully, will eventually replace the Scotia offerings.



Models by Scotia and H&R (including the Pattons); paints by Vallejo, Humbrol, Games Workshop, and Army Painter (Quickshade - Dark Tone)

[redleg]

Great looking tanks Gazza!

[Olfarty]

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[Olfarty]

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[Mortis57]

11th Armoured Division?

Yeah, mainly (IIRC) because they get Comets late on. Although this shows the Armoured Brigade pre Comets with some notes underneath on the other Armoured Divisions - all based on the info in the Micromark lists I've mentioned earlier. Note the Valentine Bridgelayers

[Olfarty]

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[Mortis57]

As a rough guide for putting together wargaming units the organisation table is okay but simplistic.

Some of what you see in the image above is down to me simplifying it for myself. The actual lists are more detailed (even if they're not 100% accurate).

Curious that the author wasn't sure whether it was Churchill or Valentine bridgelayers in a Sherman (or Cromwell) equipped armoured brigade.

That's just (mostly) down to me over simplifying again. The only lists in which he mentions the Churchill Bridgelayer are three of his 7th AD lists:
Dec’44-Feb’45
Mar-May’45
Bridge Troop: 3× Valentine AVLB &/or Churchill AVLB

Jun-Dec'45 (So after the German surrender)
Bridge Troop: 3× Churchill AVLB

That is, by June 1945, 11th Armoured Division had lost it's Valentine bridgelayers and had one Churchill Bridgelayer on hand.

Yeah, his final list for 11th AD (Mar-Jun'45) has this entry (although there's no mention of the Churchill):
Bridge Troop: 0-3× Valentine AVLB

Guards Armd Div did not initially have extra Fireflies, hence not 5 in a Squadron.

Whilst that note mentions 5 troops per squadron for the Guards, the army lists only give 5 troops from Aug'44 before that it was:
Jan-Jun'44
4 Troops: 3x Sherman V, 1x Firefly

Jul'44
3-4 Troops: 3x Sherman V, 1x Firefly (probably due to loses - that's my note not his)

As for 3 x "Grant ACV" in Guards Amoured Div?

They're only mentioned in the Jan-Jun'44 list. So, if they existed, they were probably removed prior to D-Day (given that the Guards didn't deploy to Normandy until the end of June).

All-in-all, whilst the lists might not always 100% accurate they do serve as a good starting point. He also updates them if more information comes to light.

[Olfarty]

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[Mortis57]

Bridgelayers, ad nauseum!

All this extra information is great. If I ever get the Valentines it will cover all eventualities.

Of course, once I get the Valentines I'll probably then want Covenantor Bridgelayers!

[Olfarty]

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[Mortis57]

The Canadians took a few to Sicily...

I thought I remembered reading something along those lines some time back.

Although my forces are mainly aimed at North West Europe (and Eastern Europe for the Soviets) having some optional stuff for Italy/Sicily is always handy.

As is stuff that didn't really see action until Korea (and fictional what if the war had continued past 1945 scenarios).