Thanks you guys! It gets old painting the same vehicle over and over, but it's worth it when the whole unit gets lined up!
I finished a few other vehicles late last night when I should have been in bed. I completed a Bradley, M113, and M88 from E Troop that had been stripped and repainted. I also finished 2 new packs of Bradleys that are going to I Troop.
Here are a few of the Brads loaded on HETs for movement to the 3rd Squadron motor pool.
You know, you are a real financial drain on panzergator. I actually HAVE an ACR squadron. It is, however, the H series USAREUR version - six Sheridans per platoon. My cavalry establishment is not small - two H series divisional squadrons, regimental USAREUR H series squadron, a reinforced divisional J series, two light armor squadrons (M551 battalions) and a separate armored cavalry troop. After looking at your pics, I realize I need a J series ACR squadron. C'mon! I'm trying' to improve my arty establishment and up the infantry numbers. This is getting out of hand!
All blessings flow from a good mission statement.
Pogo was right. So was Ike.
"A Gentleman is a man who is only rude intentionally." (Churchill)
Give credit. Take responsibility.
Thanks, Hoth! But I'm not painting the vision blocks and headlights on these things! That would be crazy!!! LOL
PG, you have DIVISIONS!!! I don't even have a humble regiment yet. It's definitely getting expensive, but I do have a 3D printer so I will be printing more support vehicles going forward. I am planning to do the whole support squadron with the printer, as well as the MI and chemical companies. I'm also doing several other battalion size units to support the regiment and I'm planning to print all of them so that I can dedicate my GHQ pewter budget to combat vehicles and helicopters for the ACR.
3D is definitely a great path. You can find stls, many free, for things GHQ and L4H don't make, too. And many support vehicles. I need to get a resin printer. I'm VERY short support vehicles. They definitely make a collection more interesting and satisfying.
All blessings flow from a good mission statement.
Pogo was right. So was Ike.
"A Gentleman is a man who is only rude intentionally." (Churchill)
Give credit. Take responsibility.
Let me add that I think your approach is a good one. Building the complete squadron, including support vehicles, is better than mine was. One drawback I faced was that GHQ didn't make all the vehicles needed earlier. As their offering became more complete, getting everything became easier. So I tended to limit myself to combat vehicles. And my collection grew willy nilly. I never INTENDED to have 3 divisions. I'd have been better off with an "everything" brigade. That tells the story. THEN you go from there. It wasn't a long term plan. Bouncing overseas and back didn't help, and places like Fort Polk didn't have a store. Adapting to ordering direct wasn't easy before the internet, either. Things have changed. I used to have rule that the Russian side had to have more than the NATO side. But eventually, the Russia went by the wayside. Those have been in boxes a long time - Russian motorized division, independent tank regiment, I think. Division has a T62 tank regiment and the motor regiments have T72 battalions and BMP1s. Quite old. Concentrating on NATO made things easier. And time. Started in 1978. Many, many years. I don't paint every night like Chris, although I might start.
So where do you go next? Complete armored cavalry regiment or start on a division? Assume it'll be J series, AOE, or current ABCTs... Recommend a considered long term plan, though. And paint as you go. Don't buy too far ahead.
All blessings flow from a good mission statement.
Pogo was right. So was Ike.
"A Gentleman is a man who is only rude intentionally." (Churchill)
Give credit. Take responsibility.
If it weren’t for 3D printing I would never get the whole regiment done. And even with the huge variety of stl files out there I still have some general cargo vehicles stand in for specialty vehicles. Now at least I am adding trailers where I never went to that level before. The quality on printed vehicles isn’t the same as GHQ, but for me I am willing to trade some quality for having the actual vehicle sitting on the table.
I definitely have plans. Too many plans if I am being honest with myself! First priority is to finish the full ACR, though I have several “side projects” that I have started, and I have several projects that I have planned but not started yet. I would need to live to about 150 to finish the current plans I have, but I know that I would just add projects as I finish the existing ones. LOL
ACR will be all NATO camo, which make me think that I need some desert stuff, so maybe a mech brigade in my future, and definitely a Stryker battalion too.
Side projects include a USMC Brigade of 2 MEUs (one NATO Camo and one desert), the NATO Artillery Regiment, and the Party (Pope Artillery) of 4+ artillery brigades (I just finished planning unit designations for the Party). I would also like to do French, British, and German units, as well as some Russians and a Polish brigade. Oh, and I’m going to do some all printed units to support the ACR: a composite ADA battalion, engineer battalion, and transportation battalion. Did I forget anything?
I get to paint almost every night which is nice for productivity. I have a setup that works real well for me. I will never produce anything museum quality and everything is brush work, but I can paint in the evenings and still sit next to the wife while I do it.
Also, while the DD-214 project is technically complete, my painting sucked back then so I am considering stripping them and repainting everything slowly over time. Those units were only combat vehicles, so I may try to add some support vehicles too.
Oh, and I almost forgot – I need a Cold War unit too! I have a single company of M60A1s and a single company of M551s, so maybe some more of each of those, plus some M60A2s and M48s, then at least a company of mech infantry in M113s and an ITV company, plus mortars and older model M109s.
I’m sure I will think of something else to add at some point!
Well, between 1975 and 1980, 3ID had one battalion of M60A2. They cross-attached two companies with M60A1 battalions, leaving each battalion with 1 company of A2s and 2 companies of A1s. When it came time for combat task organizing, battalions would further cross a attach companies with mech battalions. Theoretically, A tank battalion in 3ID would end up with one A1 company, one A2 company, and a mech company. The mech company might bring along its slice of the mech battalion's anti-tank platoon. The H series anti-tank platoon was 12 M150s or 12 M901s located in the combat support company (not the headquarters company, as in the J series and later). The company "slice" of that platoon would be 4 M150s or M901s. These would be in addition to the company's organic 2 anti-tank vehicles. Your mech company would have a headquarters of two M113s, and 2 M151s, three platoons, each of 4 M113s, a weapons platoon of 1 M113, two M901s, three 81mm mortar carriers, plus the 4slice anti-tank carriers. Its trains would consist of one M151, one supply M35, one medic M113 from the battalion medical platoon, one mess truck (M35 w/trailer), and a maintenance section of one M561, one M35 w/trailer, one M113, and one M578. The mess truck was usually, in the 2nd half of the '70s from the battalion consolidated mess, so might not be included. Earlier, it might have been organic.
I can't speak to the A2 battalion in 8th ID. A2 battalions in 3AD, like mine, were treated like A1 battalions. My A2 platoon (5 tanks) was cross a attached to A/2-48 IN(M) initially. My unit (1-32AR) was 3rd Brigade, 2-48 IN was 2nd BDE. Once Donn Starry took command of v Corps, my mission changed and we reinforced 11ACR in the Covering Force. 3-33AR, in 1st BDE, was employed as mine was, like an A1 bn.
So, get an A1 company, an A2 company, and a mech company and you have a Task Force as might have been constructed for a mission by 3ID(M) in the 1970s. The ITV COMPANY really didn't come along until we were transitioning to the J series TOE beginning around 1980. Mech battalions were increased to 4 line companies. The weapons platoons in each retained their ITVs, but lost the 81mm mortars. The ITVs were moved to an E company. Combat Support Company went away. Scouts and mortars were reassigned to HHC, and the 4 4.2 mortars were increased to 6. This went with the issue of M60A3, M1, and M113A2 and the reduction of tank platoons from 5 to 4, and 4 line companies rather than 3 in tank and mech battalions. Arty batteries went to 8-piece batteries. The 8-inch battalion went from three 4-piece batteries to 2 6-piece batteries as the MLRS battery arrived, the 8 inch batteries eventually giving way to the complete MLRS battalion.
When I arrived in USAREUR in 1975, the brigade's arty bn still had M109s. I spent my first year away from garrison A LOT, but noticed, at some point, the M109A1s arrived. Three 6-piece batteries.
That should give you an idea of the task ahead.
I have Student Texts from Fort Knox and Fort Benning that cover D, E, H, and J series if you have questions. These cover STANDARD TOEs, not field authorizations. I also have my textbooks from C&GS that have sample TOEs. If you want info after the J series TOE, unfortunately, you're on your own.
Naturally, once you have that one battalion and an arty battery, you'll need the rest of the brigade to go with it... Hahahahahahahahah!!! And when YOU are 76, YOU will be writing this!
All blessings flow from a good mission statement.
Pogo was right. So was Ike.
"A Gentleman is a man who is only rude intentionally." (Churchill)
Give credit. Take responsibility.
Oh yeah. The scout platoons for tank and mech bns under H series were either 10 M114s or 9 M114s and 1 M113. In 1974-75, Creighton Abrams, who was familiar with M114 shortcomings, ordered they be replaced with M113s. No sooner had that been done then scouts were changed to 3M113s and 3M150s(TOW). And THEN, the M150s were replaced with M901s. I arrived in Germany just after 1-32's M114s were turned in. I left in 1978 and we had the 901s. Lots of change in 3 years. And tank bns did not have the AT platoon, while mech bns did. Combat Support Company had scouts, mortars, ADA Redeyes (in 5 M151s w/trailer), 3 GSRs in M151s OR M113s. The tank bn CSC had two AVLBs, while the mech CSC had the AT plt. If you go before 1960 for your mech, there will also be the Davy Crockett, the bn cdr's hip pocket nuke, which is scary when I think of some of the bn cdrs I've known.
By now, you should be thoroughly confused and I may have to rewrite this more succinctly for you. The mind just isn't as sharp as it used to be and I may just have to get out the books.
All blessings flow from a good mission statement.
Pogo was right. So was Ike.
"A Gentleman is a man who is only rude intentionally." (Churchill)
Give credit. Take responsibility.
Thanks for all the great info, PG! <y head is spinning a little bit, but I know what I want to do: I'll got for a battalion of 1 x M60A1 company, 1 x M60A2 company, and 1 x Mech company. At least to start and then mission creep will certainly start to interfere in my well laid plans! I have the brigade of 1985 artillery (2 x M110A2 battalions and 1 x M109A5 battalion), but I think I need to get some older artillery to support this unit.
For some reason I want to get some M48s at some point too. Do you know when they disappeared from the inventory? National Guard maybe? Or perhaps a USMC unit with M48s and LVTP5s?
M60s began replacing the M48A1 and A2 in USAREUR beginning 1960, with the M48 series remaining in POMCUS stocks and units scheduled to reinforce USAREUR until production caught up. I don't know about National Guard and Marine replacements, although they usually lagged significantly. The Alabama National Guard battalion that was our brigade's round out battalion at Ft. Polk (2ndBDE, 5th ID) in 1980 still had original M60s. M48A3s were used throughout the Vietnam War, with the occasional M48A2 issued when A3 replacements ran short. Another consideration will be the M74 recovery vehicle, as the M88 didn't come around until 1959, I think. In 1978, our 88s were still gassers, blue-flame-breathing monsters lighting up the night sky when working hard. M74s really struggled to deal with the 48. The Fifties really relied on the M48 series throughout. The M26 , M46, and M47 served early in the decade. The real difficulty was the 70-mile range of the 48 and A1. The mileage was compensated for by drop tanks at the stern. The A2 offered some improvement. The A3 made use of the M60's AVDS1790 and conformal fuel tanks to give the range comparable to M60. And that made the M48A5 practical, as well. The armored division and tank battalion structure did not change much during the Fifties. No Pentomic stuff. So three companies per bn, three platoons per company, 5 tanks per platoon. Independent tank battalions assigned to Infantry divisions might have 4 companies and 4 platoons early in the decade. Divisions usually had around 8 combat battalions, plus Divarty. The light divisions of WWII - 3 tank, 3 armored infantry, three arty, were deemed TOO light by post-war boards of review. ROAD gave us the 6/5 battalion ratio and the mech division. We didn't see much change until the transition from H to J, beginning in 1980. There were no mech battalions OR mech divisions until we emerged from the Pentomic army and evolved into ROAD, 1958-1961.
All blessings flow from a good mission statement.
Pogo was right. So was Ike.
"A Gentleman is a man who is only rude intentionally." (Churchill)
Give credit. Take responsibility.
Your M551s would found in one light armor battalion in the 82nd Division, ACRs, and divisional cavalry squadron. The biggest, Most noticeable difference was in the late '70s, a USAREUR ACR platoon had 2 M113s and 6 M551s, while divisional cavalry platoons had the standard 5M113s and 3 M551s. 2nd and 11th ACRs in Europe had the 6 551s. 3rd ACR,which would have reinforced USAREUR in war, had the 5/3 platoons. There was another cavalry platoon type which had 4 M113s and 4 M60A1s. I don't think it was found anywhere on active service. Another difference between divisional and ACR squadrons was one had 2 GSRs and the other had 3. Cavalry platoons also had a mech squad, referred to as "the Blues," mounted in an M113, but it was removed from TOE around 1975. Each platoon also had a 4.2 mortar carrier. There were also air cavalry troops, which I have info for, but don't generally include.
All blessings flow from a good mission statement.
Pogo was right. So was Ike.
"A Gentleman is a man who is only rude intentionally." (Churchill)
Give credit. Take responsibility.
Thanks PG! That's all good info! I'm still not sure what I want to do with the M551s. I just have the 1 company of 14 tanks, so I'll have to kick that one around a bit. I had considered doing an airborne infantry battalion at some point. Do you know if the 82nd's tank battalion used standard 14-tank companies?
