Great research site

[Thunder]

Can't remember the URL, but if you go to Google and search for "french military victories" and click the I'm Feeling Lucky button, it will take you right there.

[skarsniktheunclean]

herses another great site, hopefully its going to help me decide the army i want to use when iv read through the entire site
http://niehorster.orbat.com

its agreat site, its in english-dont be fooled by the name

check it out,its definatley worth it

[tstockton]

Thunder,

You're TOO funny!!

* * * * *

But on a more serious note, if I may... (ahem, bring out the soapbox, please)

While I don't always agree with France's stance in the world, and have myself gotten quite a bit of "mileage" out of jokes about France's military forces... sometimes, I think the "France bashing" goes a little too far. France has a rich military tradition, and soldiers fighting under the French flag have fought just as well as soldiers fighting under any other flag.

As an American, I will always salute France for the help we received during the American Revolutionary War -- without France's help, we would most likely still be an English colony. Personally, I think many people have lost sight of that...

And recently, I read where in the late 1800's, when Japan was "joining the rest of the world" -- in converting from their feudal / samurai armies to a "modern" fighting force, who did they bring in to teach them and to model from? Yep, the French Army!

So I tip my hat to France -- I don't always agree with her politics (shoot, I don't always agree with MY nation's politics!!) -- but I thank the French for helping to get my country to where it is today.

* * * * *

(okay, I'll put the soapbox away now... hope I haven't opened too big a can of worms here!)

Regards,
Tom Stockton

[Thunder]

And these days, they have quite an impressive arsenal too. Their modern tanks are really amazing.

[kampfgruppe]

Well i’m french, as far i’m concerned i wish to bring my participation to this topic...
I’m very proud of our soldiers in the victory and more in defeats like in Dien Bien Phu.
I think to the Vietnam Grunt and to our soldiers in Irak, and in USA theâ€￾ back in countryâ€￾ seems to be difficult for the GI’s in case of defeat, maybe i’m wrong....
All soldiers in the world should been respected. They are ready to the ultimate sacrifice. About government and politics....no comment...just don’t confuse politicics choice, politician with the value of soldiers.
(sorry for my bad level in English)

[GHQ]

The Google search is an interesting oddity. Whether or not you find it to be amusing or offensive, the results that come up from that search certainly are unexpected. Before this topic gets too hot, can we all just agree that this is an oddity, and not turn this into a bash the French/defend the French topic? Maybe we are jumping the gun on this, but it has the makings for a topic that can be too hot for our friendly atmosphere.

Thanks,
GHQ

[Hetzen]

I've seen that page before and had a chuckle at it.

But,

without the stout resistance of the remaining French forces holding the line whilst the BEF were evacuating Dunkirk, knowing a large majority would have no way out, Britain would not have had a professional army to ressist and later provide a platform for her allies to defeat Germany.

[Mk 1]

Hetzen hath said:
...without the stout resistance of the remaining French forces holding the line whilst the BEF were evacuating Dunkirk, knowing a large majority would have no way out, Britain would not have had a professional army to ressist and later provide a platform for her allies to defeat Germany.

The story of France, and French combat forces, during WW2 is such a complicated story -- one filled with many instances of stout courage and heroism ... sometimes tragic heroism.

The campaign of May / June 1940 was certainly not the finest hour for the French profession of arms. But we would do well to remember that no one, not the Poles, the British, the Greeks or Jugoslavs, the Russians, nor even the Americans could stand up to the Panzers when they first entered the war. It was France's great misfortune that the battles it lost against the Panzer armies were fought on the front door to the French heartland, rather than far away in some desert.

But for a wargamer, there are so many interesting aspects to France's involvement in WW2. There is the battle against the Germans, which can be seen as three rather distinct mini-campaigns ... the fight of the DLMs in Belgium, the fight of the infantry and DCRs trying to block the Sedan break-through, and the hedgehogs of the post Dunkirk fighting.

Then there are also the skirmishes against the Italians in the Alpine passes and along the Mediteranean cost.

Then the colonial clashes -- Vichy vs. the British and Free French in the Levant (Syria and Lebanon), against the British in Mozambique, the naval battles that might have been if the fleet had not been bashed into wreckage in port by the RN (and later USN), the fight against the Americans and British in Morocco and Algeria (some surprisingly spirited, if brief, campaigning), then the remarkable stories of fighting Von Arnim and Rommel with hopelessly under-equipped troops in Tunisia, the remarkable ridgeline marching of the French infantry corps in the mountains of Italy, and the Free French fighting across their own homeland again, with the same equipment as the US army, but some subtle and interesting differences in tactical organization.

If you collect and game the French in North Africa, you can bring Douglas A-20 bombers in to attack American troops in Morrocco while your P-36s fend off the USN Wildcats. I've read the first-hand account (in French) of the officer who commanded the last platoon of S35s in French service, as he described watching his command, the last tanks in active service in the French army by that point, wiped out one by one by German Pz IVg's at a range at which they couldn't even reply. And the entreaties of French commanders in the Ousseltia Valley, who pleaded for at least some American helmets, so that the Germans might mistake their troops for soldiers who could be expected to have weapons and ammunition. And then there are the Spahis and Ghoums. Who wouldn't want to try modelling up WW2 cavalry in blue capes or infantry in striped blouses and pantaloons.

For a WW2 historical gamer, the French are a virtual treasure chest of variety and interesting scenarios.

[Hetzen]

Well said Mark.

I'm not trying to be a French appologist here, I'm currently reading Martin Windrow's exhaustive account of Dien Bien Phu "The Last Valley". Plenty of gaming scenarios in that one. And like you mentioned earlier, it was a case of a nation not having the means to do the job at the time, the lessons should have been learnt a decade later.