Another Bundeswehr Question

[Cav Dog]

In the modern German heavy weapons pack N560, there are tripod mounted MG3s described as HMGs, and Mortars (120mm?), yet looking at the BW TO&Es there really aren't any weapons section or platoons which would have these type of weapons. Am I missing something or does GHQ just like sculpting these figures? They are beautiful!

I suppose the mortar companies of the PzGren battalion could dismount the mortars from the tracks, but where would the tripod mounted HMGs fit in?

[STS]

The "Feldlafette" for the MG3 and MG1 was carried along, wherever the regular MG1 or MG3 was being used and was deployed as needed, with one of the squad members being in charge of carrying it (Lafettenschütze), meaning it would be in use in a regular Panzergrenadierzug, and not just in a heavy weapons section. I remember seeing them in Unimogs, M113s and Wolf, so I'm guessing it would be the same for squads mounted on Fuchs and Marder. The weapon itself was just the regular MG3.

[Cav Dog]

STS: Makes sense - very helpful and thanks!

[redleg]

Follow-up Bundeswehr question: I didn’t have plans for a modern German force anytime soon, but I came into some German gear that included both Jaguar ATGM vehicle and the Jagdpanzer Kanone.

Does anybody know how these systems were organized and deployed? Were there separate AT companies? Part of a panzer grenadier battalion? Did they operate at a company level, or maybe parceled out in platoon strength? I really know nothing about these vehicles!

[Gazza]

Not really my period but the limited info I have seems to suggest that they were a Brigade/Divisional level asset that was parcelled out.

A couple of images taken from different army lists.

Digest #4 Ultra Modern Army Lists for Challenger II rules [Tabletop Games]


G124M - German Panzer Grenadier Brigade 1995+ [Micromark Army Lists]


I hope it's of some use until someone more knowledgeable comes along.

[Cav Dog]

https://panzerbaer.de/units/bw_hstr_3_pzjgkp.htm

This would have been in the 70 to early 80s as a Brigade level Asset in PzGren Brigades. By the late 80's in heeresstructure 4, the Kanones were all replaced by 3 platoons of 4 Jaguars.

[redleg]

This is great information! Thanks you guys! I'm not planning to build a brigade anytime soon, so I think I am safe to attach an AT platoon to some tanks and mech infantry.

[jwbolen]

Found this In a 1977 article in AFVG2.
The Panzer-Jager company at that time came in 3 versions. Missle/rocket, gun or mixed. Each Panzer Bde had a rocket company, each Panzer Grenadier Bde had a mixed company. Each infantry bde had a battalion with 2 cannon and one mixed company.. it lists the mixed company having 3 gun and 2 rocket platoons with 16 gun and 8 missle vehicles. The article uses rocket and missile interchangeably. It briefly describes how they could be used enmass or split up.

[STS]

It would also depend on which time period you're looking at. In the late 90's, a platoon of Jaguars even became integral part of the regular Panzergrenadierbattalion.

https://forum.steelbeasts.org/forum/thr ... illon-hvk/

You can even spot two old "Jagdpanzer Kanone" in that TOE. Around 480 of them had their guns removed and were turned into "Beobachtungspanzer", artillery observation vehicles, in both the mortar sections of a Panzergrenadierbattalion, as well as regular artillery battalions.

Conversions should be easy in the latter case, as the kept the gun mantlet and just exchanged the gun barrely with optics.

[jwbolen]

From the 2006 edition of Jane's Tank Recognition Guide.
162 of the Kanone version had the gun removed and TOW missile launcher mounted. These were identified as the Jaguar 2. This was done in the 1983-1985 period.

[chrisswim]

STS, great picture, thank you for posting it.
I was thinking that there would be a spotting and targeting device up top for, perhaps 270-360 degree ability.
Thank you.

[redleg]

Thanks for the additional info you guys! That's why I love this forum - so much knowledge out there! And I didn't even know the artillery observation version was a thing! I will definitely be making one of those!

[redleg]

I finally finished the AT platoon, and as is so typical, they looked awesome on the table, but when I zoomed in for photos all of the mistakes became super apparent! Still though, I am calling them combat ready. I did 4 Kanones and 1 artillery observation vehicle. On a side note, when I googled Beobachtungspanzer to find pics of the artillery spotter vehicle I found lots of other vehicles that had been modified for the same role over the years, Now I know what to do with the leftover German vehicles!

[pmskaar]

Very nice work on those Jagdpanzer Kanones, Redleg! I have a few Bundeswehr vehicles to paint one of these days.

Since we have a Bundeswehr thread going on, here is a few pictures of my West German infantry which are actually GHQ Third World Regulars.

[SMS KONIG]

In reference to the mortars, non-SP mortars are found in the Mountain units and the Airborne. But the mortars were ones that had wheels for read movement. So yes they had mortars that were not SP but the version in the German Heavy weapons pack should have the wheeled carridge with it.

Jason