Infantry Only Thread

[8ball]

Everytime we do a wishlist, we all cancel each other out with requests for our own personal favorites. In the thinking man's wishlist a number of us talked a bit about infantry. So I'm starting an infantry only thread. I've started it with my post from the Thinking Man's thread.

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INFANTRY MAKEOVER

Binpicker and I have talked about this a lot, and I agree with some of the other guys here, like MK-1 and jb.

Here's what I think (I can hear the moaning already). Infantry has long been the orphan child of GHQ. It seems to me they never considered infantry to be an integral component of wargaming. The release of the Individual Infantry was a huge inprovement but it's still a half measure. It needs to be beefed up as a subset of the GHQ line.

I'd like to see infantry marketed and packaged in a more historically representative format. Instead of 60 figures, how about a platoon? The basic selection of figures would be a variation of poses compiling a 10-12 man rifle squad. In other words, each Individual Infantry set would have a minimum of 10-12 poses, and a few additional command poses for a total of perhaps 40-45 figures. The kit would be typical to the unit offered. For example, a 1944 American rifle squad would have 12 figures, including 10 w/ M-1 Garands, one with a BAR, and one with a Thompson (perhaps).

Also, poses should relate to each other. It's no good to have 10-standing riflemen, and a prone BAR man. In this example all should be firing, kneeling, or running. Or, have a mix that includes several prone, several kneeling, several running, etc. so that our stands look like a realistic grouping of soldiers.

We also need all the heavy weapons, bazookas, 30 cal MGs, Lt Mortars, Hvy Mortars and so on, for all the infantry types.

As others have mentioned here, some of the existing lines need punching up. The German infantry needs to be tops on the list, as does the Russian Infantry, and the American Infantry. These seem to have the most shortcommings and probably represent the most popular battles that we game.

Which brings me to the types thingie. We need American Paratroopers, and Marines. And please, please, please, don't suggest I just paint the American infantry different colors. If I was that detail challenged I'd be buying Adler, or worse, using rice grains. Please don't force me to buy Adler. They have such big heads.

Peachy: Billy,,,why is the ball so big?
Billy: Size of ball depend on size of man's head...big head, big ball, little head, little ball. This Bashki man, big damn head.

Please GHQ don't force me to buy Adler.

[Pitfall]

Good idea, 8ball. My particular gripe is about the Italian WWII infantry. Why so many SMG gunners? I would also like to see a few MG loaders in the mix without having to buy the heavy weapons pack.

[jb]

....Infantry in TO&E friendly packs! ROGER THAT! BRO! or is it Huya now days

[Wayne]

As for me I`d like to see relaxed infantry in a marching pose with rifle slung or in a trailing positon. How about some causalties in different poses

[Pitfall]

Ooohh, casualties! That sounds like a pretty neat idea for representing supressed/disrupted units. One could make them by taking a hammer to an infantry unit, but that just seems like a waste of good minis.

[cbovill]

I love the sight of massed infantry on the battlefield. And I agree with the need for more emphasis on the infantry. It would be an excellent idea to market the infantry by their actual TO&E. It would also be nice to see more higher level officers for the regimental, brigade and divisional HQ's. Heck, it may even be possible to do famous officers packs for each country - it would be interesting at the very least.

[8ball]

Incorporating infantry into your battles also makes terrain that much more important. In an all tank battle buildings are nothing more than window dressing, or at best great big rocks that your tanks can hide behind. But add infantry and a village becomes the site of a battle within the battle.

I will say that you need rules set that handles infantry well too.

[Mickel]

Everytime we do a wishlist, we all cancel each other out with requests for our own personal favorites.

This is why I tried limiting to one with a reason, but one, uno, ein, tahi etc must have been a difficult concept, as was the justification bit.

Anyway.... While I sincerely applaud the drive to get a bigger variety of infantry in a suitably packaged lot (I haven't bought any GHQ infantry for this very reason), I do wonder about how many people fight out 20th century massed infantry battles in 6mm. I can only speak for myself, but, I suspect like many of us here, I have a battalion of Russian WWII infantry, man for man. However, I have three battalions of tanks. A company of British infantry in half tracks and a good chunk of a regiment of Shermans. Assorted companies of German tanks and assault guns, and a company of squadies (actually, two - one with Panzerfausts and one without). One company of '91 US Army infantry in M-2s, and two companies of M-1s. I'm sure you get the drift.

Am I the odd one out here? The only reason I'm raising the point is the enormous (relatively) set up cost for what might only have a low turnover - mostly to the members of this forum.

But for what it's worth, US infantry for the winter of '44/'45, and Germans for the same, both in a platoon per pack (including command figures and a suitable number of radios) and a company weapons platoon, with some battalion level kit too. I'd like to see assorted command figures for higher level HQs. Since there might not be a need for 60 of them, that pack could include the wounded and medics etc, tables, radio sets, tents, or maybe a suitable command vehicle or two if there is room in the $8.95 budget.

Next would be Arab/Israeli for '73, ditto on the orgs, followed by the potential protagonists on the central European front. Earlier guises of some of these might cover the Korean Peninsula and other vaguely temperate spots around the world.

Oh... and while I remember... crews for ALL of the towed guns (and open tops such as the M-110 too?). I've got some French guns here with no one to fire them!

Not too much to ask is it?

[Pitfall]

I've got some French guns here with no one to fire them!

Wow... there's a joke in there somewhere, but I can't find it amongst all the others!

[Mickel]

It's not supposed to be. There are no crews for the 75mm field guns (unless I missed them, which is possible).

[1ComOpsCtr]

I really find it interesting that "gamers" would let a few holes in one manufacturers product line limit what they can do in a gaming situation.

Simple conversions will fill the holes, or "God forbid", using someone elses figures temporarily until GHQ has the time to make them.

But I guess not everyone has the experience of an enlisted Marine, where you are taught to "adapt, and overcome" in every situation. So, when you find yourself short of what you need, you get off your "butt" and make due with what is out there...

Mixing different manufacturer's figures isn't going to hurt you... Oh, it may upset Greg that we would consider this, but if you need to do a simulation or a game that needs specific figures you must provide them via whatever means necessary.

We use every manufacturers figures, including Preiser Z scale civilian figures to put our units together... they work just fine, as do H & R figures in a pinch...

Get off your "butts" and make what you need out of what is available...

Will
ComOpsctr

[1ComOpsCtr]

As an addition to the comments I made above I would like to provide some photographic examples of the combination of GHQ with other manufacturer's products from a time when GHQ did not make individual infantry figures.

These photos are from a unit of Panzer Grenadiers I made many, many years ago. I also made the causalty marker using the same figures, and a 25mm washer with some putty in the hole in the middle to make the crater with detail added as necessary as well as lots of gore to make the reason for the marker obvious. The nail makes handling easier, and safer for the figures...







The same figures are still available, along with gun crews who are kneeling. I know some of you seem to think mixing manufacturers is heracy, but I firmly believe you should take what you need from each and make due until the one you intend to stay with comes out with what you need. However, if you wait for all the products you need to come out you may be waiting years, perhaps decades, ...which means you will not be able to play the game.

That doesn't make any sense at all to me.

Will
ComOpsCtr

[8ball]

But I guess not everyone has the experience of an enlisted Marine, where you are taught to "adapt, and overcome" in every situation. So, when you find yourself short of what you need, you get off your "butt" and make due with what is out there...

Jeez Will, you are right. If there is one thing we don't see here at all, ever, nada, is adaptation and iinnovation. We're all a bunch of scrubs. I hate when that happens.

BTW, I love your Hanomag...but that infantry...hmmm. It's not GHQ is it? And since none of them look like Dark Helmet, my guess is they are not Adler either. I know, Ross! Am I right? Kidding aside, your infantry looks very nice too.

But the whole purpose of this thread is to try to persuade GHQ to rethink their approach to infantry, and to respond with revolutionary as opposed to evolutionary change. What we want is for them to approach infantry with the same level of care and exactness as they do their armor. Until they do, I guess you'll have to keep on using your Ross stuff, and I'll have to keep on painting grains of rice.

[1ComOpsCtr]

I realize what your goal is, my point is this: ask for what you believe will sell! That is what GHQ needs to know/consider when they package figures. A mold only has so many slots available. Marketing figures in an Armor cultered line is not as popular as you may think. Not to knock GHQ but they did not make figures for years and years after they introduced their vehicle line. When I first gamed in this scale shortly after I met Greg at a soldier shop in Chicago (the Hobby Chest as I remember) we used counters that I printed an overhead view of infantry, guns, and trucks. We used to play on the floor at conventions using counters to move until the tanks came into view. That was a very long time ago and there are still items they don't make yet... I got so tired of asking for trucks I made my own, a jeep, and a pretty classy Bailey Bridge too.

Even back then we fought one-to-one scale, and were thought to be nuts by most other players...

That's why I have been pushing for them to package for FoW because that crowd will want figures packaged like FoW infantry sets, etc... GET IT!

I forgot, I think the unit in the pictures was painted in 1988... long before GHQ made individual infantry, let alone Pz Grenadiers, but that's not the point of the post...

Will
ComOpsCtr