to prime or not to prime

Gort · Post by **Gort** » Thu Jul 27, 2006 11:31 pm

Sounds like you sprayed them from too far away and the paint partially dried before making contact with the model. This would be even worse if you did the spraying outside - this kind of heat makes the paint dry very very quickly. The easiest solution is to spray from closer in, or do the spraying in a cooler environment.

regards

Steve

Der Kommandeur · Post by **Der Kommandeur** » Thu Jul 27, 2006 11:46 pm

I always prime ... a thin flat white base coat helps show up the detail (and any casting flaws I may have missed at the preparation stage) and cuts out the glare from the circular daylight tube on my magnifying lamp

â€“ those are shades

I find priming helps break down the psychological hurdle of getting on with the painting!

av8rmongo · Post by **av8rmongo** » Fri Jul 28, 2006 3:13 am

Gort,
Thanks, that sounds reasonable. I did spray outside but it was at about 10pm in an attempt to mitigate the heat issue. I'm going to try to brush off the fuzziness to see what I'm ultimately dealing with.

Paul

Mk 1 · Post by **Mk 1** » Fri Jul 28, 2006 3:49 am

Paul:

I've seen the "fuzzy" affect when spraying too. But in my experience not so much with primer, but with sprayed base-coatings. I've never fretted too much over it, as I think it just looks like rough-casted metal on my Soviet tanks.

I've never considered that it might be the paint drying too fast (while in aerosal form). I had always presumed it resulted from my not shaking the can thoroughly enough. But in thinking about it, the drying-while-flying idea might well be the problem. I do tend to keep my can some distance away, and spray outside during sunlight.

Hmmm. Gonna have to pay more attention to circumstances when I do my painting.

Extra Crispy · Post by **Extra Crispy** » Thu Aug 03, 2006 1:30 am

I'm new to Microarmor but just started some T-34s for Flames of War. I was worried spray primer (a) would cover up detail like grilles and (b) have a hard time getting into tight spaces (like between schurzen plates and hulls).

Is this not so?

tstockton · Post by **tstockton** » Thu Aug 03, 2006 2:46 am

Mark,

I've never had any problems with primer obscuring detail -- to my eye, I find the opposite is true. For some reason, it seems that covering the cast metal with a matte coat seems to make the detail even more visible. I've found this to be the case in every "genre" I've modeled in -- armor, aircraft, ships, railroading, in metal, plastic, resin and wood.

One possible concern -- the primer itself. Over the years, I've pretty well decided on and settled for one primer -- Floquil. Yes, it is a lacquer-based paint. However, if sprayed in light coats, I've had no problem applying it to any surface. (I rarely "cover" in one coat -- I usually use two or three LIGHT coats instead of one HEAVY one.) In fact, I would hazard a guess that the lacquer's tendency to dissolve styrene would allow a THIN coat to very slightly "etch" the model's surface and provide even better adhesion. But that is just a guess... someone more knowledgable than myself my say I'm full of beans (my friends and co-workers often do!)!

I buy it in small spray cans -- seems like 3 oz. or 5 oz., something like that. I usually use the Light Gray, but it also comes in White, and if I'm not mistaken, Zinc Chromate and Black. (Not sure about the last two...)

I can see where using a primer with a less-finely-ground pigment might be a concern. But in using Floquil, and in light coats, I've never had a problem.

Hope this helps!

Regards,
Tom Stockton

Pitfall · Post by **Pitfall** » Thu Aug 03, 2006 3:17 am

I agree that a matte primer coat can enhance the detail on a model for painting. The matte coat allows shadows to develop, whereas the metallic finish of the pewter can hide those details with reflections and glare, especially if you're looking at the mini under a halogen or flourescent bulb.

As for types of primer, I've used Krylon grey sandable primer for every modeling project that I've done. It dries quickly, accepts all types of paint, covers well, and it available everywhere for cheap. when I first started with Microarmor, I tried applying primer with a brush, but that took WAY too long and I found that towards the end of a run, my painting was getting sloppy and the primer coat was getting thick, obscuring a lot of detail.

The key to using any spray paints or primers (primer is different than paint) is to spray the surface quickly and lightly. Heavy coats obscure detail and cause runs. Secondary primer coats can be layed on within 15 minutes or less if the model is allowed to dry in a warm, dry environment with plenty of circulation. Also, minis should be washed off with a de-greasing detergent with wamr water and allowed to dry thoroughly before priming. Sometimes, residue from the casting process can remain on the mini and not allow the primer to stick to the surface. I use an old, soft-bristled toothbrush and dish soap or SimpleGreen detergent.

tstockton · Post by **tstockton** » Thu Aug 03, 2006 4:27 am

Pitfall,

Couldn't agree more with your post, especially the notes on light coats of primer AND cleaning the castings before painting -- but I have a question. Is Krylon "fine enough" to not appear "grainy" when it dries? It would be a LOT cheaper than Floquil...

Regards,
Tom

Thomaso827 · Post by **Thomaso827** » Thu Aug 03, 2006 7:17 pm

I'm using the recently released line of Krylon Camo Colors OD Green for much of my US stuff, and it serves both as a primer and as a base color, and I havent seen any loss of detail once it dries completely. The multiple light coats thing is the key, as well as the distance between the nozzle and the item. Cant beat the price, either. I can then darken or lighten with drybrushing. The OD Green is just about perfect for the Vietnam era helicopters, a bit light for that era armor, but also made a good start for the infantry, which I then drybrushed with lighter green, almost Feldgrau, which comes out looking like the faded fatigues I still have around the house from the early 70s.

Pitfall · Post by **Pitfall** » Thu Aug 03, 2006 10:47 pm

I think it looks fine, and when a topcoat is applied the final finish looks smooth enough. But, I tend to paint desert camo so a slightly grainy appearance is good.

I'll take a picture of a primed fig with the Krylon and also a topcoated fig and let you decide for yourself! Look for that in a few days (Monday or Tuesday).

tanker · Post by **tanker** » Mon Sep 18, 2006 9:59 pm

I just primed up some Tiger Is and KV-1s and laid on a base coat of color. I used Games Workshop white primer. I sprayed lightly from a bit of a distance so as not to overkill the detail and I ended up with a grainy surface texture. At first I thought I'd have to drop them into the acetone and start over but when I looked at the texture I'd gotten I rather liked it as it gave the tank a rougher look, similar to that achieve on the real Tigers with that armor surface that looks like it was laid on with a trowel. So I decided to lay on the base coat using Vallejo acrylic diluted with water to fill in but not clog the details. I'm going to put on a second coat but so far they're looking rather nice. I should take a picture and put it up on my website for you all to see (should have thought of that before I wrote this too, but oh well).

Anyone else play with this kind of texturing for their tanks?

Tanker

Ritter · Post by **Ritter** » Mon Sep 18, 2006 10:22 pm

I use white, flat and cheap Canadian tire brand metal primer to prime all my miniatures. Try out a few brands and see what works best for you. I have heard that Floquil is the best though.

Troy

jb · Post by jb » Tue Sep 19, 2006 1:42 am

tanker wrote:Anyone else play with this kind of texturing for their tanks?

Tanker

Yes. I didn't care for it. It was a BAD batch of primer.I had 3 cans of it. I found it absloutely worthless

...Sorry

sturmgruppe1944 · Post by **sturmgruppe1944** » Tue Sep 19, 2006 5:53 pm

Pitfall wrote: 'The key to using any spray paints or primers (primer is different than paint) is to spray the surface quickly and lightly. Heavy coats obscure detail and cause runs. Secondary primer coats can be layed on within 15 minutes or less if the model is allowed to dry in a warm, dry environment with plenty of circulation. Also, minis should be washed off with a de-greasing detergent with wamr water and allowed to dry thoroughly before priming. Sometimes, residue from the casting process can remain on the mini and not allow the primer to stick to the surface. I use an old, soft-bristled toothbrush and dish soap or SimpleGreen detergent."

Good advice. I'm also a big fan of priming. After using automobile primer for a number of years, I tried Tamiya primer and now I won't go back to the other stuff. I find the Tamiya primer has very fine pigment and doesn't hide any of the details on microarmor.

I usually clean the castings with a sharp hobby knife and a jewelers file. Then I drop the metal casting into a jar of lacquer thinner for 10-15 minutes and thoroughly air dry the models before priming. The primer provides a good base for further painting. BTW, don't put plastic or resin models into lacquer thinner.

sturmgruppe1944

BrianH · Post by **BrianH** » Sat Sep 23, 2006 2:22 pm

I always primer my Micro Armour. I usually use Floquil or Tamiya light grey spray primer. Then paint with acrylics and give the miniatures a coat of gloss then flat spray varnish (Dulcote or Poly-S or Micro Scale).

I find that without primer the paint job will eventually rub off. Putting the miniatures on bases also helps a lot. I have also tired baking the primer and the basic colour and then after the black wash on but did not find it made much difference other than speeding up drying time. Never bake varnished or decaled AFV.

to prime or not to prime

Primer