Best rulesystem for 6mm?

vicvolta · Post by **vicvolta** » Wed Sep 13, 2006 3:47 am

Hey y'all.
Me and my friends bought the Panzer March! system for use with 6mm, but it doesnt seem to work to well with that particular scale. Although we havent tested it as of yet, we feel that the system would work better with 10mm and up.
So, I've heard that the Blitzkrieg Commander is good. But do folks agree? Or do you have other suggestions?

/much abliged =)

Nerroth · Post by **Nerroth** » Wed Sep 13, 2006 5:25 am

The only 6mm game I currently play is Epic: Armageddon - which at the moment is only set in a sci-fi environment, but could be converted into a 20c historical system without too much effort.

Gary

dougeagle · Post by **dougeagle** » Wed Sep 13, 2006 5:54 am

I have the GHQ WW2 and Modern rules, tried them on my own, using my modern armor for both periods. They are fast and fun. I have tried Spearhead, Modern Spearhead and I have 'A Fistful of TOWs 2' which is geared for modern.

All are good, in my opinion, but its also up to what you think would work best for you and your friends.

javelin98 · Post by **javelin98** » Wed Sep 13, 2006 5:59 am

I use Dirtside II for sci-fi. Haven't settled on a modern ruleset yet, but am leaning towards Modern Spearhead.

Extra Crispy · Post by **Extra Crispy** » Wed Sep 13, 2006 7:03 am

I have not played BK but I think it would work very well in this scale.

I'm trying somewhat modified Flames of War using half-size bases. Lets me fight with lots and lots of maneuver room (I do scenarios not that points nonsense). I just convert inches to half-inches and pretty much play it as is.

Mobius · Post by **Mobius** » Wed Sep 13, 2006 11:19 am

How do you mean best?

Mickel · Post by **Mickel** » Wed Sep 13, 2006 12:00 pm

There are as many answers as there are people to answer it with this question.

If you're a rivet counter don't get BKC. If you're not, they're good fun. I've got the GHQ ones the way (here this week, I hope). I haven't been able to get my head around the rules (I borrowed a set). Don't know why - it just doesn't seem to click.

Mein Panzer? Have heard good things but don't have the readies to try them.

atiff · Post by **atiff** » Wed Sep 13, 2006 1:32 pm

For a set that produces results which mirror hostorical results well, try Command Decision (and Command Decision: Test of Battle - otherwise know as CD version 4 - will be out very soon....)

vicvolta · Post by **vicvolta** » Wed Sep 13, 2006 1:44 pm

cheers mates =)
Perhaps I should clarify. We would like a 1:1 rulesystem, ideal for 6mm (1/285), pretty fast played but not on account on realism and detail. Alike the Panzer Marsch! system, I would say, but more fit for the 6mm scale.

/much abliged =)

Der Kommandeur · Post by **Der Kommandeur** » Wed Sep 13, 2006 2:05 pm

Hi vicvolta

Have a look at thew BK forum ... gives an excellent impression of what folk there think about the ruleset, including the things they want to change or have house rules for.

I've been a "rivet-counter" in the past, but have warmed to these rules because they seem to make for more fluid games with plenty of tension, through uncertainty, due to the way the command system works.

DK

vicvolta · Post by **vicvolta** » Wed Sep 13, 2006 3:26 pm

What is rivet-counter?

Der Kommandeur · Post by **Der Kommandeur** » Wed Sep 13, 2006 4:43 pm

Rivet-counter = obsessed with detail

I am one of these in my profession so I look for a little light relief in my pastime ...

Mobius · Post by **Mobius** » Wed Sep 13, 2006 6:57 pm

="vicvolta" What is rivet-counter?

rivot-counter=obsessed with details like tanks should have turrets
non-rivet-counter=Roll a "6" and it dies.

Try these rivot rules http://www.panzer-war.com/

vicvolta · Post by **vicvolta** » Wed Sep 13, 2006 9:43 pm

Hmm, okidoki
Im not sure if Im a riveteer or not. Sure sounds pretty cool to have hit locations and such in game, but perhaps it slows everything down a bit... Best marriage between fast play and rivet counting is what I want, I guess.

I would like to have hit locations on vehicles and 1:1 function on the infantry but not over the top.

Mk 1 · Post by **Mk 1** » Thu Sep 14, 2006 2:12 am

...Best marriage between fast play and rivet counting is what I want, I guess.

Tastes great! Less filling!
Its a Dessert Topping! Its a Floor Wax!

Yes, I think we'd ALL like rules that have perfect and complete detail, yet play in "real time" or better.

But they ain't happening. So different rules-writers make trade-offs. Those that do well wind up somewhere on the continuum between detail and speed-of-play. (Those that don't do well wind up writing rules that don't have detail but are still unplayable...

) .

Then we, as gamers, try to understand were the various rules live on that continuum, and try to figure out where we'd rather be for our gaming.

Or something like that ...

Sure sounds pretty cool to have hit locations and such in game, but perhaps it slows everything down a bit...
I would like to have hit locations on vehicles and 1:1 function on the infantry but not over the top.

The Panzer-War rules are very satisfying if you are a real tank "enthusiast".

Our group played those rules about 6 or 8 times over the course of last year. I am a real nut for knowing the details of tank histories, and the research represented in Mobius' rules are fantastic. I really do appreciate being able to "feel" the subtle differences between a T-34 m42 and a T-34 m43.
I think the key to playability with the Panzer-War rules is to keep the forces limited in size. With new players, one or two platoons per player is probably the most you should use. Once you've developed a few gamers who have the feel of the rules, you can move the experienced guys up to about a re-inforced company, each. But I would not expect to get an individual player running more than that ... something like 12 to 16 pieces per guy would be the max.

You might also try dividing the work-load. We found that two or three guys, each familiar with the rules and each with a full set of charts, could divide the adjudication of the action between them and make each turn go much faster.

At the same time that the Panzer-War rules go into fine detail, they also do very well on playability. The charts, in particular, are very well organized.

Several of the game-play mechanics are also well thought-out. In particular, the way that shooting takes place (simultaneous between the two sides within a phase, BUT stationary units fire in the first phase, then units which just adjusted their positions in the second, then units that moved slowly in the third, then finally units that moved at high speed) gives a very simple, yet effective, historical sense of the way that WW2 tank platoons had to operate to be effective. Also, the bonus given to stationary units (they shoot first, in the first phase, but also get a second shot in the third or fourth phases) gives a very good historical answer to how AT guns or tanks in tactically advantageous positions shot up their opponants in such dis-proportionate numbers.

We had some screaming fun clashes. The rules enhanced that fun, by my reconning. For example, on one occasion a Soviet T-70 was shot by a PzIVg, and the shot BOUNCED! It was reasonable, as the T-70 had exceptionally heavy armor on some of its aspects. But not on all. So rules that "average" the armor might not have given a chance for a bounce. But it was a lot of fun when it did.

Or on another occasion, two Soviet 57mm guns dueled with some German StuGs. The 57mm guns had great penetration. But they were just not lethal enough! Twice, they "ventilated" the Germans, punching holes but not destroying the tanks. I was hopping mad! But it was indeed reasonable. Reading histories of tank actions, one sees repeated stories of tanks getting hit and penetrated two, three, or more times by smaller caliber AT guns. Sometimes it took half-a-dozen holes to make sure the quarry was out of the fight. Rules that simply equate a penetration with a kill might not have given this result.

But the heart of the matter is that the rules give you very interesting detail of each tank, and to appreciate that detail you have to have few enough tanks so that you are paying attention to each and every one of them.

And they are free. Can't beat that deal if you try.