German Camo vs Monochrome

[CountRingworm]

sorry if this gets asked frequently here-

i've mainly been focusing on some late-war NWE german stuff and doing up some camo/ambush schemes on my armor. however, i'd really like to eventually do some early eastern front gaming as well, and being as cheap as i am, would like to cross-purpose as much as possible.

i have a pack of german command truck/jeeps, for example. i figured i may do a few of them in camo, and a few in the gray monochrome so i could use them early or late. i'd consider doing this for other support type vehicles as well, maybe even half-tracks, movers, etc.

my question then is, how common was the monochrome paint job during the late stages of the war? would my mono vehicles look totally out of place historically in 44-45 NWE? or were the germans so short on equipment and resources that they threw whatever they had into the mix?

hope i made myself clear...

[groundlber]

Judging from most of the pictures I've seen, by the late war the German army was happy with anything that moved. Your plan to mix and match would match the photographic evidence. The combat units would more likely be camoflauged, but even there, you could mix in a few oddball vehicles to represent 'brand new' replacements. The support vehicles could be almost any mix you wanted: you could even through in a few captured vehicles, either painted in German colors or just having balkankreuz painted as recognition signs.
One of the photographs I remember showed a column of German softskins that included among other vehicles, what looked like an Opel bus. Yet another "when I get around to it" project for the conversion tray.
Groundlber

[Mk 1]

Quite agree with groundlber, for support vehicles almost any combination is appropriate.

I have never seen a truck in ambush pattern. Late war I would expect a mix of panzer grey, and plain panzer mustard, and a few in various camo jobs ... some "tiger stripes" for units that saw service on the Russian Front, and some temporate patterns but that have only brown or only green in their camo (rather than both).

Vehicles came from the factory in panzergrau (early war) or dunkelgelb (mid to late), and any further camo'ing or repainting was done at divisional and regimental depots near the front lines. Supplies of paint paste, and extra gasoline to thin it with, were not exactly consistant, and so even within a unit that was trying to be consistant, there would be inconsistancies. Some units didn't even try. But the panzers usually got priority for whatever paint and time was available, so support vehicles (up to and including APC tracks) often went without. Trucks were almost never re-painted, so they lived their lives with whatever paint job they got when they first arrived at their unit.

This makes for some fun, as you get to use almost any paint job you want on a vehicle-by-vehicle basis. Also, you can add to the variety by putting in other guy's trucks. Toss in some Studebakers, or some GAZs, or some Renaults, or some Morrises, depending on what fronts you fight on. THESE would have more likely been re-painted, although sometimes just a German flag over the engine compartment can do.

Or so I understand.

[armypainter]

It looks really good to mix and mach for 1943 when they are just coming out with the cammo but still have the grey on the old tanks.

[cbovill]

I don't have my reference books with me but I believe the order/directive was given in February of 1943 to switch from dark gray to dark yellow. Of course before this date you still have quite a variety as some units in southern Russia (Army Group South) started painting tropical pattern. In addition, some units allocated to the DAK would get rerouted to the Eastern front and be wearing their tropical pattern.

As has already been stated, after 1943 anything goes. There are even reports that in the final months of the war, the supply situation was so topsy turvy that some tanks were being finished in stocks of dunkelgrau, not sure if that is true or how common.

I just wouldn't paint a Panther in gray or a Tiger in gray (unless it belongs to 2/502 sPzAbt. - which was painted in gray at the end of '42).

Also, standard policy was that only AFV's and foreign equipment was painted with the balkenkruezes, so it should be exceedingly rare for a German built softskin to have crosses painted on it.

Chris

[Pitfall]

IF I recall correctly, there were times when they just rolled the tanks out of the factory with red oxide primer and nothing else...

[rangerguy]

I have a question for the Tunisa and Italian paint schemes used by the Germans...

Did the Germans evacuating from Tunisia bother to repaint their units in Sicily? I'm painting a battalion of armored grenaidiers and was wondering whether it was advantageous to paint them for desert use.

Also does anyone know whether the 251 D halftrack was introduced in North Africa or not?

Thanks in advance

[Tanker Mike]

IF I recall correctly, there were times when they just rolled the tanks out of the factory with red oxide primer and nothing else...

What is you source on that?


Mike

[Luca]

IF I recall correctly, there were times when they just rolled the tanks out of the factory with red oxide primer and nothing else...

Yes, It was written, for example, on the Osprey's New Vanguard N° 39 on Pz IV.
The tanks were painted with a base coat of red brown primer (Rot), then oversprayed with about 50% with well thinned Dunkelgelb. And this wide pathches and stripes of dark yellow were outlined with very thin line of white. Finally the lower sides of the hull were lightly painted in Olivegrun. But there's also a plate that depict a tank with both dark yellow and green stripes, always retaining 50-50 balance with the Red primer.

I think this camuflage worked quite well during the winter, is very pale, and the dark red of the primer recall the colour of the frozen and wet earth.

[Tanker Mike]

Check out the link below for info regarding the camo on German tanks fall 1944 and into 1945.

http://www.planetarmor.com/forums/showt ... =red+oxide