Proposed Project

terry · Post by **terry** » Sat Dec 23, 2006 9:58 pm

It would be a great help to those of us new to the hobby or just plain ignorant if those among us with the expertise and dedication would create a brief description, history of each item offered by GHQ to include dates,specifications, numbers built etc. It would be even better if GHQ would include those descriptions on it's catalogue pages. Even better yet if we could print those pages and create a source book of our own for the pieces we own. Give me your thoughts.

Extra Crispy · Post by **Extra Crispy** » Sun Dec 24, 2006 4:13 am

Hi Terry:

There are plenty of books that detail just this sort of thing. I often see them on markdown at the bigger chanins - big fat "Tanks of WW2" kinds of things, usually under $20. While these will not have the more esoteric vehicles, they'll cover probably 90% of what you need.

Examples:

http://www.amazon.com/Tanks-World-War-S ... F8&s=books

http://www.amazon.com/Encyclopedia-Tank ... F8&s=books

http://www.amazon.com/Russian-Tanks-Wor ... F8&s=books

Similar titles will also be available at any decent public library. Also, take a look at
www.battlefield.ru for Soviet info...

terry · Post by **terry** » Sun Dec 24, 2006 4:38 am

I realize that there is a lot of reference material out there and I own a pile of it. I just thought it might be fun to enhance the catalogue a bit with more information.

Brian-Edmonton · Post by **Brian-Edmonton** » Sun Dec 24, 2006 4:45 am

Actually that is not a bad idea.

I could see GHQ adding to its catalog a short description describing the product in question. When it was intruduced perhaps. theatres fought in, numbers produced and any points of interest. They would be breaking new ground here if they did. But I could not see anything overly detailed being done. As Crispy has indicated there are many internet sources as well as books. Personally I use reference books to verify info rather than anything off a business web site.

But it would still be good to give a new person an idea of which vechicle fought where and when. It would also help new GHQ'ers match up armies.

Just my 2 cents

Brian (Edmonton)

paul · Post by **paul** » Sun Dec 24, 2006 4:54 am

I have found that part of the fun of the hobby is spending time researching vehicles, years of service, and the numbers that countries have. Throw in favorite battles and tatics and I never run out of things to learn. It has created a very good refernce market.

terry · Post by **terry** » Sun Dec 24, 2006 4:55 am

Exactly. A little info might whet someones appetite to delve a bit more deeply into the history. Plus the dialogue among the faithful would inform us all.

terry · Post by **terry** » Sun Dec 24, 2006 5:20 am

As I've mentioned in earier posts my background is primarily in Model railroading and the one of the main reasons newbies drop out is that they buy up a bunch of cool trains only to discover that the General and the Super Chief were never in the same place at the same time. I'm sure that happens to people who get started in this hobby as well. If we want this hobby to grow we must always me mindful of the newcomer who needs all of the best non judgemental help he or she can get to get started on the right foot. The serious reseach comes later. It would be nice to think that they would join this forum and ask their questions, but that isn't likely. they will work their way through the cataloge and and buy what catches their eye. The more info the better.

Luca · Post by **Luca** » Sun Dec 24, 2006 6:22 am

My little researches showed me that on most battlefield there was a big variety of weapons and vehicles, overlapping different versions and different periods. The difficult job is to find the right vehicle for the right unit for the right battle, this is the problem. Frontier battles are easier to research, mid-campaigns the most difficult. It's an amazing job.

Where is the place to find official records of units strenght, maybe translated to english?

And also anybody knows if exists some pubblished sources parallel to the officials, for instances the BundesBahn records of moving equipmet to the front?

L.

1ComOpsCtr · Post by **1ComOpsCtr** » Sun Dec 24, 2006 6:47 am

Gentlemen,

A universal comprehensive reference would be great for the hobby, and could be used by all modelers and collectors in all scales. Bits of information arranged to accompany the GHQ catalogue would create a wonderful document. However...

There are a series of problems, and I mention them because I have recently completed the first phase of a comprehensive study of the Balkan campaigns from 1989 to 1999, which would make the task daunting beyond comprehension. For the 10 year period mentioned I have accumulated over 24,000 pages of single spaced military information, 2150 pictures of equipment, 1,645 pictures and drawings of uniforms and unit patches, 810 maps, 678 tables of organization for specific encounters and battles, 1,295 profiles of leaders and influential people, 133,980 pages of testimony and criminal and civil indictments, and I expect to spend two more years reviewing classified documents dealing with the American and British military and intelligence actions alone. Plus I am still working to gain access to EU, Serbian, and Russian documents which I expect will take another couple of years or so before I will be able to get a peek at non-sensitive stuff. All-in-all I expect the comprehensive reference on this small area of conflict will take over 10 years to complete and will be composed of a minimum of five volumes of 250 pages each, though we are trying to get that down to slightly over 200 pages each to keep printing costs manageable. The cost of this research is so far beyond the imagination of anyone but someone who has completed a similar project I can't even begin to quantify it.

Not that I wouldn't want someone else to do the work, say with a staff of 5 - 10 on WW 2 and perhaps a staff of 15 - 20 on the modern period beginning in the 60's.

If every member of this forum would provide the desired information on 5 items in the catalogue it might be possible to create a reference source that could be useable... but I see no other way to get it done simply due to the cost of paying people to do the research. And I'm pretty sure that would be for publishing the information on the web site only because the printing costs could become prohibitive every time a new item is added to the line and a new catalogue is printed...

Just my thoughts on the subject... sorry to be so negative.

Will

terry · Post by **terry** » Sun Dec 24, 2006 10:04 am

I don't think you are being negative, however, if I was new to the hobby and read your entry I would dispare that I would ever learn enough to enjoy miniature war gaming. All I would expect in the GHQ cataloge is dates of production, number built, amament and what fronts the piece was commonly used on. That and maybe some interesting bit of trivia.

tstockton · Post by **tstockton** » Sun Dec 24, 2006 10:28 am

Will,

First off, I would have to say HOLY COW!!

My next thought would be... have you considered publishing your works when you feel they are reasonably complete? It sounds like you have the makings of an excellent resource for "the rest of the world" to read!!

Then -- let me throw this idea out for discussion... Like others who have added to this thread, I've also done some research on some items of interest to myself. And among the things I've found is the perception that there are not only different levels of interest in a particular topic, but different levels of what I will call "presented information" available -- maybe from a few lines in a history book aimed at elementary-aged students... to the "Name-Your-Topic for Dummies" reference guides... to the "written by author's name here with a Ph.D. in History books... and lots of levels between -- not to mention the related books for gamers, modelers, etc.

My guess is what was proposed to start this thread is a "very basic" set of notes on each model produced. In my humble opinion, I believe that would be a good thing -- it would give the modeler / gamer a base of "where to start" for a particular pack of tanks... and if he (or she) wanted to learn more, they'd at least have that starting point.

Something to think about...

Regards,
Tom Stockton

1ComOpsCtr · Post by **1ComOpsCtr** » Sun Dec 24, 2006 12:03 pm

Thanks for your interest in my research. It will be published eventually through Butler University or the Indiana University Press. Not quite sure when, ...but eventually. My interest in the Balkans began when I worked with the EU Observer Corps, with the added responsibility of cataloguing the various militia units, sub-units, including major and minor military and civilian players in the Mostar area, ...but later including the Ploce to Mostar to Jablanica transportation corridor and surrounding area. The variety and rate of change was staggering, thus making a comprehensive history difficult at best.

Again I agree with the desire to put this type or resource together, but I don't think the average person who says "I want that" understands the level of work required to bring it to fruition. This is not in any way a criticism, ...just an observation, and while I may seem negative toward the idea, I'm not, ...its just that those interested need to understand the level or work that would be involved.

If someone within this forum or GHQ's organization would take on the responsibility to combine the research done by other members it could work, but quite frankly it is a great deal of work and takes many, many hours of time most of us don't have to spare.

Then there would be the other portion of the job... getting it on the web somewhere. One would hope GHQ would be interested in helping, but the cost of doing the web work would have to come from somewhere...

If this is to go forward there needs to be an agreement on exactly what information should be included and what sources should be considered.

Will

tstockton · Post by **tstockton** » Sun Dec 24, 2006 12:09 pm

Will,

I hope that when you do get your works published, you will let me know -- either here on the message board, or off-line if you prefer.

There is just so much I know little-to-nothing about -- and the centuries of conflict in the area we call the Balkans is one of them. I've read a little here and there... I vaguely recall some from history classes I took in college (minored in History). And to my mind, learning more about the "modern era" situation there would be something I'd like to know. I'm not interested in being an "expert"... but it is an area of my knowledge that is, sadly, lacking.

Regards,
Tom

1ComOpsCtr · Post by **1ComOpsCtr** » Sun Dec 24, 2006 12:21 pm

Tom,

An excellent resource to learn about the basics in the Balkans...

Susan Woodward's BALKAN TRAGEDY, ISBN -0-8157-9514-9 HB or 9513 Paper, published by the Brookings Institution. Susan published the book in 1995 after several years research and first hand experience working with the special representative of the UN Secretary General in country.

If you wish more information I could send you a comprehensive reading list...

Will

RoughRIder · Post by **RoughRIder** » Sun Dec 24, 2006 12:28 pm

I think that what terry may have been referring to about stats on vehicles for the catalog maybe years in service i.e 1943-1945, which front they fought on i.e all europe, or only eastern front, and maybe some basic stats i.e. what gun the tank carried.

This way a newbie could see that if they buying certain items from the catalog then they would know that they would be from all the same front.

I dont speak for terry, but i dont think that he was looking for it too be all to extensive for each vehicles, just some basic facts.