Can't ID the Russian Anti-tank weapon

cfielitz · Post by **cfielitz** » Tue Mar 20, 2007 3:50 am

I finally got around to basing and painting my Russian infantry (W68). In the pack, there are figures with two types of personal anti-tank weapons. One is clearly a RPG-7, but what is the other? It looks sort of like the AT-4/M136 anti-tank grenade launcher, but I can't seem to find any information on a Russian weapon that looks like this on the web.

Mk 1 · Post by **Mk 1** » Tue Mar 20, 2007 5:24 am

cfielitz wrote:I finally got around to basing and painting my Russian infantry (W68). In the pack, there are figures with two types of personal anti-tank weapons. One is clearly a RPG-7, but what is the other? It looks sort of like the AT-4/M136 anti-tank grenade launcher, but I can't seem to find any information on a Russian weapon that looks like this on the web.

(From the GHQ catalog...)

Are you speaking of the one near the center of this picture?

I believe it is the 9K115 Metis. NATO calls this the AT-7 Saxhorn. It has been widely issued to mech infantry from the late Soviet to the current modern Russian and FSU armies. Also reputed to have been used by Hizbollah in the recent unpleasantness in Lebanon, an issue of some contention between the Isrealis and the Russians.

cfielitz · Post by **cfielitz** » Tue Mar 20, 2007 5:38 am

No, actually its the guy that is to the left of the mortar team and just above and to the left of the guy with the auto grenade launcher. He has a shoulder-firing tube-like weapon. I don't think its a RPG-7 that has just been fired.

Atticus · Post by **Atticus** » Tue Mar 20, 2007 6:03 am

I'm pretty sure it's an RPG. Just not the rpg7 that is more commonly seen. Basically a russian made version of a US LAW or something.

cfielitz · Post by **cfielitz** » Tue Mar 20, 2007 6:11 am

It seems like some sort of LAW. It would be neat to know so I can use them for my FFT2 games. There are not as many in the W68 pack as the RPG-7's (about 4 RPG-7 to 1 of these mystery LAWs), but waste not want not!

Fulcrum · Post by **Fulcrum** » Tue Mar 20, 2007 7:03 am

I'll take a shot

Could be a Russian RPG22

Slight chance it could also be the RPG18 as well... They are both folding LAW type launchers

cfielitz · Post by **cfielitz** » Tue Mar 20, 2007 7:06 am

Well, I'm convinced. I can sleep easy now!

cfielitz · Post by **cfielitz** » Tue Mar 20, 2007 7:07 am

Thanks everyone for the help!

Ben · Post by **Ben** » Tue Mar 20, 2007 2:56 pm

Hi,

in my opinion the ATGM included isn't the AT-7 but the AT-14 (Russian designation 9M133 Kornet / 9M133-1 Kornet-E). Just my two cents.

Best regards,
Ben

Mk 1 · Post by **Mk 1** » Tue Mar 20, 2007 10:13 pm

Ben brought us:
in my opinion the ATGM included isn't the AT-7 but the AT-14 (Russian designation 9M133 Kornet / 9M133-1 Kornet-E). Just my two cents.

Could be, could be.

The Kornet has a taller tripod, which would fit the model in the picture well. But the under-tube equipment of the Kornet should look more tubular, while the under-tube stuff on a Saxhorn is more boxy.

The Saxhorn has a much broader issue, as launchers are present in each rifle company by Russian TOEs. The Kornet is concentrated in the battalion AT sections and specific AT formations.

At least that is my understanding. I've never actually handled either.

Ben · Post by **Ben** » Wed Mar 21, 2007 4:28 pm

Moin - moin!

Maybe I am expanding this theme a bit too much but I have to add, that the Kornet-E launchers I have seen so far do not look tubular but boxy as the AT-7 / AT-13 ones. Furthermore the under-tube equipment (opticsâ€¦) is located in the mid-tube section at the AT-14 and far more forward at the AT-7 / AT-13.
From what I know the AT-7 / AT-13 are optimized for being used from prone position, while the AT-14 (as Mk.1 already said) uses a rather big tripod.

Beste GrÃ¼sse aus Niedersachsen,
Cheers Ben

Mk 1 · Post by **Mk 1** » Wed Mar 21, 2007 10:38 pm

Ben again:
Moin - moin!

Maybe I am expanding this theme a bit too much ...

Well, at least I don't think so. Hope we're not abusing the patience of other forum members too much, but I very much enjoy discussing the finer points of visual recognition on weapons systems.

but I have to add, that the Kornet-E launchers I have seen so far do not look tubular but boxy as the AT-7 / AT-13 ones. Furthermore the under-tube equipment (opticsâ€¦) is located in the mid-tube section at the AT-14 and far more forward at the AT-7 / AT-13.

I can see your point, but I'm still not convinced on the appearance of the under-tube assemblies. Perhaps if we saw the GHQ mini from the other side it would help. Or maybe I need to look at more pictures of both systems from the same side. But that makes little matter, as you will see in my comments below...

From what I know the AT-7 / AT-13 are optimized for being used from prone position, while the AT-14 (as Mk.1 already said) uses a rather big tripod.

This is the issue that turns the question for me. I think you are right, Ben, it is an AT-14 Kornet.

The tripod is just too distinctively Kornet-ish (?). The Metis has a smaller tripod, whether "optimized for being used from prone position" or not, it is small. In fact, as I understand it one of the requirements for the Metis was that the operator be able to set it up on a window sill to fire from a building. So not necessarily prone, but a small tripod. And ... the operator sights are located adjacent to the missile tube.

The Kornet is a larger and bulkier system, and has a more substantial and taller tripod. It is designed to be set up on the ground, or on the floor in a building (to fire over the window sill). And ... at least in some configurations, the operator sights are located at the base of the tripod. The operator lies prone, with his face turned downward, looking into an eyepiece which gives him a sighting picture from an imager along side the launch tube. In this way operators can keep their heads below covering terrain, while the missile launch tube itself is above the terrain. I believe this was intended to help reduce the opposition's ability to disturb the aim of the missile operators by return fire.

It is this last issue that surpasses all others in my observation of the model. The operator is pretty clearly lying prone next to a tube on a tall tripod. Ben, you are right -- it's a Kornet.

Fulcrum · Post by **Fulcrum** » Fri Mar 23, 2007 6:31 am

No, actually its the guy that is to the left of the mortar team and just above and to the left of the guy with the auto grenade launcher. He has a shoulder-firing tube-like weapon. I don't think its a RPG-7 that has just been fired.

Ok was I right on the "Could be a Russian RPG22"

Ben · Post by **Ben** » Mon Mar 26, 2007 1:38 pm

Hi Rick,

from what I know about this Russian folding type launchers, I would second your thoughts - it is a RPG-22 or maybe a RPG-18.

Cheers Ben

xhrit · Post by **xhrit** » Mon Mar 26, 2007 4:51 pm

The machine gun and rpg7 are included in normal stands, the rapid fire grenade launcher is for support stands, the mortar for indirect fire stands - that leaves the ATGM squad add-on and the AAGM squad add-on.

The ATGM add on is the Red Arrow 8. (or rather the Russian weapon that the red arrow 8 was copied from)

The AAGM add on is a strella 2 (SA-7 Grail)

Why is the miniature not looking up? I dono. Maybe he is firing at a plane still on the runway.

Can't ID the Russian Anti-tank weapon

Can't ID the Russian Anti-tank weapon

Re: Can't ID the Russian Anti-tank weapon

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