Color help

[ssgnobles]

I have a company of shermans, panthers and a t34/85 company. What primer color and base coat is recommended

[Mk 1]

...is recommended?

Is recommended by whom? By me?

I recommend white spray-on primer. If you have a light touch on your base-coating, it helps in providing added look-and-feel to the overall model. It lightens the coloring a little bit (often recommended for the "scale" effect). It also tends to provide some highliting of raised features.

For the base coating, I would recommend:

Shermans: Olive Green (NOT Olive "Drab")
T-34-85s: Medium Green or Forrest Green
Panthers: Mustard Yellow ("Dunkelgelb")

As to the Germans ... you can have a fair bit of fun giving variety to your tanks as you paint on the camo patterns. The base coat was pretty uniform, as it was applied at the factory. But the camo patterns showed a lot of variety, as they were applied at the local workshop. Even within a company, there was often a lot of variation, as different tanks arrived at different times to the workshop, and recommendations for the patterning changed over time. Also the two colors of camo paint (brown and green) were delivered as a paste to be diluted with gasoline, and any of those three components may have been in shorter or longer supply from one occasion to the next.

Soviet paint tones also varied in time. But all tanks were painted green at the factory. Its just that the green may have varied from one factory to another, and there were several major factories building T-34s by late war.

So look at your models, and where you see some differences between them (GHQ has done very well in putting a little variety into each Soviet model), you might try mixing a little yellow or white or brown into the green for some sub-set of the models. This can also be achieved by using different washing/drybrushing techniques for some sub-set of the models.

Just some ideas. This is what I would recommend. You'll get others here who will recommend other colors, particularly for the primer or for the Soviet tanks (the proper shade of green for WW2 Soviet armor is much debated among historical modellers.) But there is no one "right" solution. Try one, or another, and see if you like it.

[ssgnobles]

thanks that will give me something to work with....

[Pitfall]

I try not to stress the camo colors too much. For the reasons Mk1 gave (differnent paint solutions, field camofluaging, etc.), there were so many differences between paint schemes it seems silly to quibble over the differences among the various brands of panzer grey.

...That should start some discussion!

[1ComOpsCtr]

Take a look at the "Show us your stuff" thread. There are many pictures of vehicles, including what you are painting. There are other threads that go into painting and detailing specifically on the next page of threads...

Will

[DrBig]

This is some good reading...

but don't forget to adjust for scale effect. (lighten the colors)

http://www.matadormodels.co.uk/tank_museum/5_camo_1.htm

[hauptgrate]

Call me weird, but I don't primer...never have in over 20 years of painting lead...uhhh pewter. I have always just used a good solid coat of whatever base color the vehicle should be -- panzer grey, olive drab, etc. -- then proceeded to put on whatever camo was necessary. I paint tracks steel, roadwheels rubber, mufflers rust, windshields a white wash. Then I literally dip the dried vehicle into a very thin ink or paint blackwash and set in on a paper towel. I use a large brush to take off any pools of blackwash, and to make sure engine grates are well covered. Sometimes I add on a second blackwash on the suspension. Then dry I drybrush overall with a dust colored tan and seal with two or three coats of clear flat.

On the other hand, I have a good friend who swears by black primer. He then basically drybrushes on the colors, thus leaving his models looking very similar to mine -- light highlights and dark recesses -- but by a completely different method.

My method takes less actual working time but more overall time between colors and washes for drying. My friend's method takes more working time but besides the drying time of the primer and final flat spray coats, he quickly moves from color to color since he is basically appling dry paint. I tend to work in batches of 4-6 vehicles while he does one through completely.

As far as to which method wears better...they both appear to get chipped and scraped at about the same rate.

[Carl67]

I would like to add to the black primer method as well.

For example - I prime Black. Let dry. I drybrush my shermans with the GHQ olive drab, Then a Pale Olive from Vallejo or reaper paints. Then, I use what is called Flesh wash by citadel color. Games workshop 40K warhammer people know what I am talking about.

An ancient gaming guru up at the Warzone Matrix in Cleveland Ohio- proprietor Chris Wilson showed me this technique and it is absolutely stunning. Forget the airbrush and tedious work.

Just drybrushes and washes and WHAM!!! you have a battle hardened sherman ready for batlle and it took less than 5 minutes to complete.

Sincerely
Carl 67

[jpo]

I use a spray primer (recommend white, though that can leave white spots). I have recently gotten into the habit of spraying (via a can, no fancy gear for me, sadly) on a base color and then applying camo.details by brush. Seems to work well and takes less time then applying the primer/base by hand.

Got a color question. I will be painting up some modern British in a black stripes on green base camo pattern. However, I am unsure what shade of green to use. Should it be darker or lighter than NATO green?

Thanks.

[dougeagle]

Got a color question. I will be painting up some modern British in a black stripes on green base camo pattern. However, I am unsure what shade of green to use. Should it be darker or lighter than NATO green?

From what I have seen on the net is that its lighter than that of the NATO green. I think its more along the lines of the medium green spectrum.

www.armouredacorn.com

Click on the 'Non Canadian Markings' and you should find pics of British Chieftains and Challengers

[dougeagle]

Got a color question. I will be painting up some modern British in a black stripes on green base camo pattern. However, I am unsure what shade of green to use. Should it be darker or lighter than NATO green?

I have been doing some searching for this as I have received my latest shipment in of moderns, particularly some Chieftains and FV432's, just need a few more vehicles. Anyways, from what I have found (from the net and various paint charts of several companies) is you can go a few different directions with this. Naturally, sun and weather will usually (pretty much always) lightens the pigment over time, thus the color that we see on pics and such are not their original colors. But here is what I have found that might work.

Humbrol #75- Matt Bronze Green
- Vallejo Model Color #897- Position 98- Bronze Green
- Tamiya XF 13- J.A. Green
- Testors Federal Standard (FS) 34102- Medium Green
- Polly Scale 505390 (FS 34102)- TAC Medium Green

Humbrol #76- Matt Uniform Green
- Vallejo Model Color # 895- Pos.88- Gunship Green
- Tamiya XF 26- Deep Green
- Testors FS 34092- European Green
- Polly Scale 505246 (FS 34092)- Foliage Green RAAF K3/178

I guess from there it is a matter of personal choice as too which color you want too use.
Hope that helps.

[tstockton]

Gentlemen,

My two cents worth, if I may...

For starters, let me congratulate "you all" for NOT doing what I'm about to say next...

I've seen, heard and read too many "arguments" about what the proper color is for a particular [ insert your choice of real-world object ] , as shown in a model. There are just too many variables in everyone's perceptions of how a [ your model here ] should appear. But for the sake of discussion, let me point out a few...

(1) Type of and quality of film used to photograph original
(2) Chemicals used to process photograph
(3) Length of time since photograph was processed, and subsequent aging of photo
(4) "Real-world" conditions at time of original photograph, such as:
...(a) time of day
...(b) sky conditions (sunny, cloudy, etc.)
...(c) distance from camera to object
...(d) atmospheric "distortions", such as humidity, smoke, dust, etc.
(5) Quality of paint applied -- was it mixed at the "factory", was it applied in the field by relatively unskilled labor, etc.
(6) Amount of "environment" on the object being photographed -- dirt, dust, mud, etc.

And this is not a comprehensive list...

I don't think there is an "exactly correct" color to paint ANYTHING. I think the keys are...

(1) Is it relatively close?
(2) Does the viewer perceive it favorably?

And MOST important...

(3) Do you like it?

If the answer to #3 is "yes", then I would say it's done properly.

* * * * *

Mind you, I'm only talking about color (or to our English chaps, colour ) -- I'm not referring to unit markings, proper model at proper time (no AK-47's on an American Civil War battlefield), etc.

At the same time -- I think it is wonderful that we can all "weigh in" on what colors we use to paint our models, ask for guidance from others, and chip in our two cents worth on what wethink should be used on a particular model. That interaction with each other is how we learn... and how we find things that just might be better than what we're currently doing, and become happier modelers in doing so!

* * * * *

Okay, time to put the soap box away... thanks for letting me put in my two cents worth!

Regards,
Tom Stockton

[Mk 1]

I've seen, heard and read too many "arguments" about what the proper color is for a particular [ insert your choice of real-world object ] , as shown in a model. There are just too many variables in everyone's perceptions of how a [ your model here ] should appear.

I think Tom is right-on with his perspective.

I would add one more reason to rejoice in imprecision in tank colors ... no matter what the book says, no matter what the regs say, and even IF the environment treats all tanks in a unit in identical ways, somehow they wind up different.

One of the guys I game with commanded a platoon of Abrams tanks in Iraq for a year. He shows pictures of the tanks in his company, and the variety is surprising.

The regs say that they were all supposed to be painted one way. One uniform color.

Bah!

Some were still in Nato tri-color. Some were desert sand from the factory. Some were desert-sand painted OVER NATO tri-color. This last set, depending on when they came into the country and were painted (how long in the desert sun) were an amazing variety of colors.

And then there was one tank that was desert sand when it arrive, but for no apperant reason, when exposed to the harsh desert sun, got darker and darker, "fading" through gray to almost black over the course of the year. His theory was that it had been base-painted green, but not completed in NATO tri-color, before being painted-over in sand, and that maybe the base-coat was not fully dry and cured before the sand was applied. And so the paints mixed over time, and produced un-predicted results. Or not. Who knows?

The point is, out of 14 tanks, there were about four or five that were the spec'd color.

This, in an army that chose a simple mono-chrome solution for its tanks, in a low-intensity combat environment where base-time was high, maintenance was very well organized (relative to other armies), and the supply situation could only be described as an embarrassment of riches. And still only about one-third were actually "right" by the book.

So don't worry too much about getting it "right".

[hauptgrate]

All good points about color above...plus...military vehicles move more THROUGH the terrain rather than OVER it. Just look at how dirty a car can get just with small amounts of road dust over paved roads, and ask any off-roader how much dirt, dust, mud, tree sap, and just plain crud they pick up after even a short off-road stint, and then imagine a tank driving through this hours at a time. Oh, and unless they are about to get inspected, military vehicle crews have little incentive to clean their vehicles. Unless your force is meant to be "factory fresh", a wide variety of color hues and weathering variations are all "correct."

[dougeagle]

I agree with what you have all said, and it is a matter of a personal choice. I just figured that it would help jpo and a few others with an idea of what shade of green to check out and I did just that. I tried the Testors Medium Green in their Acrylic line and here are 2 pics of a Chieftain MkV MBT done in that color. Just click on the links.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v466/ ... Vacopy.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v466/ ... kVcopy.jpg

What I did was paint the whole mini in Medium Green then gave it a light black wash, then drybrushed a light green to bring out the raised edges. I then applied the black stripes and applied (tried too) apply a very light GW Codex Grey to bring out the raised edges. the tracks were then painted with GW Graveyard Earth.