Microarmor Gaming and Squares

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Timothy OConnor
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Microarmor Gaming and Squares

Post by Timothy OConnor »

Inspired by the PBI WWII rules I've taken another crack at using squares for miniature wargames.

To mitigate the fiddly nature of microarmor vehicles I've mounted them on stands 1" wide by 1" to 1-1/2" deep depending upon vehicle size (the city buses I bought from Microform require a slightly longer base at about 1-3/4"). Infantry are 1" x 1". These extra thick Litko bases make hadnling the tiny troops much easier.

After trying a couple of games with these troops and rulers I decided to try them with a 4" sqaure grid. I've marked a piece of felt with a pattern of dots to define the 4" grid (VERY quick and easy!). I then placed buildings and trees in the squares to define urban areas and woods. I also converted my moves and weapon ranges to these squares and we tried a game today (well, it was myself and my two little boys age 5-1/2 and 7...but they're both very bright and the 7 year old reads at a high school level :D ).

Squares seem perfect for microarmor since movement and ranges are much more clear and one can focus on the game. This is especially true for urban fights with lots of infantry.

There is some distance distortion when measuring on a diagonal but that's easily fixed with a rule such as "the first two diagonals count as 1 square while subsequent diagonals count as 2 squares each". With that approach there's very little distortion at my typical engagement ranges of 4-7 squares.

Has anyone else tried squares or hexes with microarmor? Results?

Thanks in advance!

Tim

jb
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Post by jb »

...I prefer rulers.....They rule!
er sorry,had to be said,ol boy.
John

Timothy OConnor
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Post by Timothy OConnor »

No, my wife does (or so she thinks...bwaahahaha!). :D

taskforce58
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Post by taskforce58 »

I'm not familiar with this "square" style rules. Can you give a quick summary of it's mechanics? Is it basically just superimposing a square grid on the table like a board game?

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Post by Timothy OConnor »

It simply relpaces rulers with squares to measure movement and weapon ranges. The squares also regulate unit position. It's a bit like playing a board game with miniatures.

In theory the downside is a loss of "fidelity" in unit position and distances. Tradtional ruler-based games are ** CENSORED ** (that would be a--n--a--l--o--g...so much for automated naughty word control!) sort of like old LPs while square or hex based games are "digital" like CDs. With rulers you get virtually infinite degrees of unit position, distance, and angles while with squares/hexes you get measurements and postions in chunks as large as the square/hex.

The advantage is speed of play since distances and position have a much higher degree of certainty. An extreme example is DBM in ancients wargaming which can be dominated by arguements over a mm or two and some moderns games in which a tiny difference in shot angle can mean the difference between oblivion and a ringing rickochet! With squares these tiny measurement and angle issues disappear. And common actions such as moving stands are much faster since they require the simple counting of squares.

In my experimental rules (and PBI) a square can contain a number of stands before being considered "over crowded" and subject to penalties which make it easier to score hits against targets in the square. In my rules this is 4 stands in a 10cm x 10cm square (ie over 4 stands and the shooter gets a +1 to hit for each stand over 4).

LOS is determined by drawing a line from shooter's square center to target's square center...if a square with buildings or woods clips this line LOS is blocked. The position of a stand within a square is immaterial (avoids lots of tradtional "discussions" as to tiny differences in angle, range, etc.) but vehicles/towed weapons must face one of the 8 possible directions in a square.

Move distances, weapon ranges, and other distance-related rules are given in squares (eg command and control distances). Terrain is also square based so that each square is considered to be a specific terrain type. Counterintuitively this does not result in a blocky terrain presentation since while the game mechanics are square-based the terrain within a square can have very natural visual curves (eg a woodline or area of broken terrain).

Also counterintuitively it's very, very easy to mark a cloth in squares. With a tape measure simply mark dots at 10cm / 4" intervals along one side of a cloth. Do the same on the opposite side. Then placing the tape across the cloth and "level" with dots on opposite sides simply mark dots at 10cm / 4" intervals across the cloth and work your way down. Perfection is not required but getting pretty close to prefection is very easy and fast (about 20 minutes for a 4' x 6' cloth).

Microarmor, even when mounted on stands, is very lightwieght and easily displaced accidently (especially when placed on top of terrain features!) I really like combined arms games which means tanks AND infantry and the infantry stands are REALLY lightweight. In other periods and scales units are usually large enough, heavy enough, and dense enough that "incidental movement" and minor differences in distances and angles are not as much of an issue. But with tiny 1" x 1" microarmor stands the squares seem to mitigate the problems associated with minitaures that can be so easily (and significantly!) displaced by a tiny variation in model terrain, a table bump, or unsteady wargamer! :-)

I've tried this before but didn't see a big a benefit with larger scales. But with microarmor there seems to be a very significant ergonomic benefit that makes gaming far more enjoyable and trouble free.

Hauptmann6
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Post by Hauptmann6 »

I don't get what the point is? Why not play a board game?

I've played mini games with hexes, but you end up with WAY too much weirdness

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Post by Timothy OConnor »

I don't get what the point is?
See above. Microarmor is very tiny compared to 15mm-25mm figures.
Why not play a board game?
Using squares and hexes does not make a miniatures game a board game. One still uses the exact same buildings, figures, and trees when playing a minatures game with squares/hexes. But visually there's a huge difference between a 4' x 6' table wargame table and a board game! I play both but would certainly never confuse the two.

The key difference between the two approaches in miniature gaming is the device used to determine distances and angles: squares/hexes or rulers and templates. Each has advantages and disadvantages.
I've played mini games with hexes, but you end up with WAY too much weirdness
Exactly! That's the trade off I'm afraid.

Squares/hexes = more certainty and speed but fewer options as to position and angles.

Rulers and angle templates = less certainty and speed but more options as to postion and angle.

I suppose the potential for weirness is a matter of priorities (pick your weirdness!). Squares and hexes certainly limit a gamer's choice as to stand position and angle relative to other stands, but that same limitation provides much faster gameplay and virtually eliminates related discussions (arguements?) when resolving movement and combat.

But your comment is very interesting in light of trends on the board game side. We're seeing more board games with lots of little miniature plastic soldiers sort of like the old MB and American Heritage board games. It's simply more fun to move little toy soldiers rather than card board counters. Some people even use "real" wargame figures to play games such as Command and Colors Ancients.

And in miniatures there's a clear trend towards faster and easier to understand games that can be played with less of an investment in time and money compared to the old days of tables overloaded with hub-to-hub tank hoardes (now what was the point in that?!?! With so many figures there was never any room to maneuver and thus very few decisions for the poor gamer to make. Boring!) And gamers seem to prefer a complete package when it comes to rules systems. They want the rules, army lists / TO&Es, and a guide as to how to collect and set up their troops and table.

In fact some miniatures games are being played on ever smaller tables (4' x 4') very much like board games. These are often one-on-one games since people seem to have a lot of difficulty in finding large groups of wargamers to play multi-player games (my favorite type of gaming...we have a couple of very nice groups here in Atlanta that do multi-player games).

Perhaps a sort of fusion is in the offing.

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Post by Hauptmann6 »

We play ASL on a hex mat with minis. the problems we have are LOS. yes, there is a clear line, yet the hexes don't allow it. That and it allows a tank to go down the road at an angle. The front of it facing off the side enough to now allow a side shot when there SHOULD be one.

That and teh biggest problem we have with it. Is counting hexes for movement. Somehow all of us mess it up a few times a game. When with a tape it's really easy. just move it along the tape.

And if it's REALLY close for range measurement. We roll a die to see if it's in or out.

As to the size, that's the POINT of micro armor. For 99.9% of games the ground scale is MUCH smaller than even 1:285th. So the tanks are already too large. Let alone 15/20mm.

And no, using terrain doesn't make it a mini game. It makes it a board game using minis. Big difference.

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Post by Timothy OConnor »



As to the size, that's the POINT of micro armor. For 99.9% of games the ground scale is MUCH smaller than even 1:285th. So the tanks are already too large. Let alone 15/20mm.
PBI is played with 15mm figures and uses a 1:1 figure ratio so is actually closer to a "correct" scale than GHQ's rules which use 1/285 figures at a 5:1 ratio for vehicles.

But that's different than the issue of gamer "ergonomics" which is what I was refering to when I noted the small size of microarmor (and which exists regardless of nominal ground and figure scale). The tiny tanks can fit on a thumbnail and are very lightweight. Thus, their precise position and the measurement of relative angles can be difficult to determine compared to larger scales (eg the front of a Stryker is just 8mm wide and flares to a middle width of ~11mm...that's a VERY tiny facing to measure angles of off!) This is true whether the tiny tank represents one tank at a precise 1/285 ground scale or 5 tanks.

Thus anything that can mitigate these strictly ergonomic issues associated with such tiny game pieces might be helpful. These include the use of bases and maybe the use of squares/hexes rather than rulers and angle templates (again, that Stryker frontage of 8mm is darn tiny!).


And no, using terrain doesn't make it a mini game. It makes it a board game using minis. Big difference.
I'm not certain that simply changing a measuring device makes a game a "non-miniatures game". Crossfire doesn't use rulers at all. PBI uses squares rather than rulers. Most rules such Command Decision and the GHQ rules use rulers and angle templates.

All of these rules systems use miniature figures and miniature terrain.

The only difference between them is the approach to measuring relevant distances (eg while Crossfire doesn't use rulers it does use "base widths" for a few game mechanics.)

I would certainly describe games such as Command and Colors, Memoir '44, Tide of Iron, HeroScape, and BattleLore truly board games played with miniature figures in that the games are played on very tradtional boardgame-style playing surfaces.

But as for Crossfire (no rulers) and PBI (squares) they are clearly miniatures games played on very traditional miniature terrain set-ups but they simply don't use rulers to determine distances.

Heck, the latest DBX games don't use traditional rulers and instead use special measuring sticks based on figure scale. Does this lack of 12" rulers make DBMM a "non-miniatures" game? :wink:

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Post by Hauptmann6 »

Timothy OConnor wrote: PBI is played with 15mm figures and uses a 1:1 figure ratio so is actually closer to a "correct" scale than GHQ's rules which use 1/285 figures at a 5:1 ratio for vehicles.
You missed what I said. Even at 1:285th the figures/tanks are massively out of scale with GROUND scale. In every set of rules I have ever seen/heard of, even a micro tank is 50 yards long in game ground scale.

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Post by jb »

Timothy OConnor wrote:[
But that's different than the issue of gamer "ergonomics" which is what I was refering to when I noted the small size of microarmor (and which exists regardless of nominal ground and figure scale). The tiny tanks can fit on a thumbnail and are very lightweight. Thus, their precise position and the measurement of relative angles can be difficult to determine compared to larger scales (eg the front of a Stryker is just 8mm wide and flares to a middle width of ~11mm...that's a VERY tiny facing to measure angles of off!) This is true whether the tiny tank represents one tank at a precise 1/285 ground scale or 5 tanks.

Thus anything that can mitigate these strictly ergonomic issues associated with such tiny game pieces might be helpful. These include the use of bases and maybe the use of squares/hexes rather than rulers and angle templates (again, that Stryker frontage of 8mm is darn tiny!).
:wink:
Myself and all the people I've played with over the years have had no problems with figuring out the facing of micro armour. We did have one guy that would argue over precise facing,but he would argue over EVERYTHING too. Thats one guy out of hunderds over 30 years. So I don't beleive the size of the micro armour was to blame.
John

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Post by Timothy OConnor »

I haven't seen too many problems so far but I'm very relaxed about this stuff too. I use the 90 degree corner of a sheet paper to determine angles because it's convenient and you always have a "template" handy! :-) I also mount my vehicles on 1" wide bases which make angles much easier to see as well.

But I too have experienced the occasional smarmy player with a rubber ruler and very flexible notion as to what constitutes a valid firing angle. And as we get older I have encountered more players who lack the dexterity to effectively handle microarmor.

This past week we were on a beach vacation and played a number of board games that utilize miniature figures rather than counters but which of course lack the visual appeal of a square-based miniatures game such as PBI. After playing these games and doing some more experiments with square-based miniatures games I'm becoming more convinced that any disadvantages associared with squares/hexes are easily balanced by significant advantages. This is especially true for urban combat with lots of combined arms action and lots of infantry stands on the table.

Hauptmann mentioned a couple of issues with LOS, etc when using hexes but these seem minor compared to potential speed of square-based games.

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Post by Hauptmann6 »

Timothy OConnor wrote:
Hauptmann mentioned a couple of issues with LOS, etc when using hexes but these seem minor compared to potential speed of square-based games.
I'm still not seeing the speed advantage. With the group I play with, we use timed turns for napolionics. I have run around 30 units at once, and was able to get them all moved properly in 4 min. And that's with me having to look at the charts for movement(I am the inexperienced player)

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Post by av8rmongo »

Its a slow news day so I've read through this thread 2-3 times to figure out if its something worth engaging in or not - old fighter pilot proverb says never join a mature engagement. Its probably not but here goes anyway. Please understand that all of this is only to make sure I understand what you are talking about since all I have ever used with miniatures is a tape measure and a straight edge.

Couple of questions:
1) What exactly do you mean by "more certainty" with squares. Are you just saying that you know with certainty that the enemy unit is within a given 4in x 4in square?

2) What ground scale do you use? In most games I've p[layed over the last 20yrs 1in equals either 50yds or 50m depending on the rules. Is it the same with your rules? Does that make your squares 200m x 200m?

3) What is your unit scale? Are you gaming at 1:1 or 1:5 or something else? The reason I ask this is that if you're gaming at 1:1 and each square is 200m x 200m and it doesn't matter where the firing unit or the target unit is within the square then aren't you in effect making all weapons area fire weapons?

4) Isn't fire and movement along the diagonal really more significant than you're suggesting? Its been a while since I've done geometry and trigonometry but isn't the line between the centers of diagonally adjacent squares about 40% longer than the one between squares that share a side? Again using 200m x 200m squares that would mean firing at an adjacent square (200m center to center) is the same as firing at a diagonally adjacent square (280m center to center). Not too far off but if your normal engagements are 4-7 squares then at 4 squares the ranges are 800m vs. 1120m. That's more than a square and a half difference! At 7 sqaures range the difference is about 2.8 squares. Isn't that distortion why most board games went to hexes in the first place? Hexes have consistent ranges along six radials compared to four for squares.

If I understand what you've said correctly essentially what you are advocating is that your terrain is "pixelated". Each square or pixel is of a representative type - woods, urban, whatever. Each type confers specific attributes/restrictions on the entire square. You place markers such as buildings or trees within the squares to iunform players what the attributes/restrictions of that square are but the physical marker has no inherent attribute/restriction by itself. (By that I mean if LOS is traced through the square with the buildings it doesn't matter whether or not that LOS actually touches the building where it was placed within the square) You could just as easily lay down colored tiles representing each of the attributes/restrictions represented by the terrain types. You can shoot an move through green but not move through blue etc.

If I have understood all of that correctly then I can see how it would speed play since most of a given units capabilities have been abstracted away. It doesn't matter where a unit is placed since it occupies the whole square simultaneously, it fires against a whole square simultaneously and is acted upon by uniform terrain within a square. As you shrink the square size, the "pixel" in my mental construct, then these abstractions get smaller and smaller.

If I've captured that accurately then I would say that I prefer things representing things. A building is a building, I can't see through it but I can maneuver to see what's on the other side. (Incidentally, I'm told that GHQ's rules use the same kind of terrain model where a given type is applied to a hex or whatever - which is one reason I won't use them)

One more example why the squaresfor me is also a deal breaker: Two squares adjacent with one square inbetween (assuing 4in squares with 50m per inch) have their centers 400m apart. 400m seams to me like a medium to long range shot for an infantry man (ballistics say the weapon can do it but the human in a firefight against a target that doesn't want to get hit is going to have to work at it). But if a physical miniatures are at opposite ends of their respective squares then the range is closer to 600m, if they're at the closest ends of the square then their range is only about 200m. I'm no ground pounder but I've done some shooting even a little competitive shooting and I'm way better at 200m than I am at 600m, especially shooting at things that aren't shooting back or trying to hide.

I know that I selected the 4in square and I defined at 50m per inch but I think you can see my point that averaging the effectiveness of fire over such a large ground range has a major impact on game play. Increased speed? Yes, I can see that but what is given up?

If I've mis-understood anything you've suggested please set me straight I'm always interested in understanding new ways of doing things.

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Post by 1ComOpsCtr »

Take a look at "off-set" squares... they are much closer to a hex configuration and eliminate the diagonal problems mentioned.

Will
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