Microarmor Gaming and Squares

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Timothy OConnor
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Post by Timothy OConnor »

Hello Paul!

There's a lot there and you should know that this is strictly an experiment (at least for me!) Others use squares routinely in 20th century gaming (PBI from Peter Pig) so this is something I've been merely toying with for awhile now but others have adopted enthusiastically.

When I refer to "certainty" I simply mean that when playing with very tiny lightweight playing pieces they will be more prone to shift due to irregularities in the table top terrain. It's the milimetrics problem seen in games such as DBM. PLaying with easy going gamers solves a lot of this problem but, like I wrote previously, even the most honorable gamer is going to have a tough time figuring out firing angles based on the tiny front of a 1/285 AFV (eg the Stryker is only 8mm in the very front!) It's simply that such tiny vehicles and figure stands can be very "fiddly" which presents an ergonomic challenge at times (especially as we get older and perhaps less patient!). :-)

As for the geometry, you're absolutely correct so it's a trade-off. PBI has an approach that I've modified and adopted to mitigate the warping and it's this: the first two diagonals in any measurement count as 1 square. Beyond that each diagonal counts as 2 squares. The result is that at typical engagement ranges in the rules (3-7 squares) the warping of a measurement is limited compared to a true straight line measurement. I know it sounds odd but it really works (I made some drawings in a graphics program to test this out when I read about it in the PBI rules). You get more warping at the extremes but big deal. To me it's the relative values that matter most.

This is related to your second question about ranges. Yes, if each square in a "5:1" game is 200m or 300m then counting from one square to the next can in theory represent a broader array of ranges (start digression...my rules are really 3:1 or 4:1...5:1 makes no sense to me since the vast majority of weapons and vehicles are organized in multiples of roughly 3:1 or so...the 5:1 organization of German and US tank platoons in WWII was the exception rather than the rule and designers such as Frank Chadwick have said that it was these two company organizations that guided them to the 5:1 ratio...end digression) But that's not unlike the problem of using a ruler and having a target completely out of range because it's 1/4 inch beyond the shooter's max range band. In fact, the square approach is probably more representative of reality in this case since in the real ** CENSORED ** world ranges are more fungible than in the strict ruler-model typically seen in a wargame (ie shooting at a target 3 squares away better represents the fact that in the real world rounds don't suddenly fall out of the sky simply because a target is beyond some absolute range value).

As to pixelated terrain, you are very much correct from a technical perspective. The status of each square is binary in that it's either one type of square or another. But as to the look of the game (something that's important to me) the presentation need not be blocky. In my experiments I actually found the use of squares to be liberating in that very natural terrain can be made within a square but one need not worry about the implications on the game mechanics. This is especially true for urban terrain.

This brings up another benefit that I've discovered recently. Because terrain square definitions are binary all sorts of LOS and LOF issue become much easier to resolve at a glance and without reference to angle templates, rulers, stings-o-death, laser pointers, and the like. In the real world a soldier knows if he can see past the edge of a terrain feature. In traditional miniature games it becomes a class in geometry as gamers whip out their implements (which brings up yet another benefit...less table clutter with no rulers or templates!...the squares can be defined with very subtle yet distinct dots or even natural clumps or terrain such as weeds or gravel...unobtrusive yet very functional!).

This also goes to the positioning of stands within squares. With squares one can position the stand to look nice relative to the terrain in the square and not effect the outcome of the game. With the traditional ruler and template approach this is not possible. We've all been there before as a fellow gamer tries to precariously place a stand on some inconvenient terrain feature only to declare in frustration, "Well, you know where the stand really is" and the stand proceeds to slide down some miniature precipice. And this is fine and is what I've done but it's nice to place stands so they look good rather than tilted at some odd angle on a model terrain feature. My two little boys really clued me in to this issue when we played together as they placed their AFVs in urban squares to make them look like they were lurking through the city streets. This was much faster and far more colorful than the usual approach of placing the tiny vehicles "just so" and in adherence to a game's movement and LOS restrictions relative to the jumble of urban terrain features.

Anyway, the point of this thread was not really to debate the value of squares but to see if others used them in anyway. To me the use of squares (or hexes) now seems like a natural for microarmor. I was just curious as to how others might have used this approach in the past (eg Hauptmann's comments on hexes were very interesting.) That being said I can't say that the very reasonable objections that you and others have expressed are surprising since I had shared many of them myself until I tried it out! Everything written by every contributor so far has some degree of accuracy if not always based on actual experience which brings up the most salient point.

After playing a few test games I must admit that I too had hastily dismissed the idea but have really enjoyed how this approach lets me focus on the narrative of the game and its tactics rather than on the details of ruler measurements and template angles. But like I said this is all an experiment since I'm rather new to and still somewhat ignorant on the subject, so I'm VERY interested to read about other prespectives and experiences!

Tim

Timothy OConnor
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Post by Timothy OConnor »

I wonder what word was censored? That's really odd...

av8rmongo
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Post by av8rmongo »

Tim,

Thanks for the further explanation. One more question: How does the terrain model handle things like hull down positions and those sort of things?

Paul
“It's a beautiful thing, the destruction of words.â€￾
― George Orwell, 1984

People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf.
- George Orwell

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jb
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Post by jb »

Tim,
I (we) don't really have any of those problems you describe. It seems that your squares emulate more challenges than is neccessary. If your happy with them,well I'm happy too :wink:
John

Timothy OConnor
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Post by Timothy OConnor »


Thanks for the further explanation. One more question: How does the terrain model handle things like hull down positions and those sort of things?

Paul
Just like any other set of rules: lots of imprecision! :-)

But seriously, regardless of squares or rulers, hull down seems to be a perenial problem in 20th century wargaming and probably deserves a thread of its own. One of the best approaches I've seen (if not the most visually appealing) is to use a string to define a crestline and treat it almost like a "linear obstacle" for hull down purposes. Whether or not I continue my squares experiment I'll probably try out the string approach. (I think that Bob McKenzie (sp?) does this...he does a lot of 6mm and 20mm gaming and has a very nice website).

A similar result can be achieved with squares by simply indicating that certain squares include the crest of a hill and AFVs are be considered hull down against enemies on the opposite side of the line bisecting the square as determined by AFV facing (in PBI and my own rules vehicles and towed weapons face a square side or corner.)

So squares (and maybe strings!) actually make hull down far more precise than traditional approaches (I've seen plenty of discussions as to whether or not a vehicle is hull down relative to another postion, especially after a vehicle achieves hull down against one enemy and then another moves into LOS of the "previously" hull down AFV.) (BTW...I put my terrain matt over foam cut to hill shapes so the squares that fall on the highest points of the hill or its ridge line can be designated the hill crest for hull down purposes.) A tough nut to crack!

I've never ridden in a tank but I've played plenty of computer game simulations and shooters which include tanks and I think that it's probably much harder to achieve hull down than we miniature gamers would like believe (especially against lots of different enemy positions!). This is consistent with what I've read in WWII memoirs and even Viet Nam (in Nam hull down was not a defence against enemy tanks but an effort to prevent RPGs from hitting the hull...it was usually achieved by moving up to dikes or elevated roads). How do you handle it in your rules or, more precisely, given your hill modeling approach (which is often the real issue since there are so many ways to do hills)?

JB...not sure if I'm happy with the squares yet! :? But today I did apply a grid to my best ground matt so I'm committed at this point at least for the cost of redoing my matt if this doesn't work! :-) But before reaching any conclusions I would urge you to experiment since that's the only way I was able to figure out the benefits. In fact, I had toyed with this several months ago without giving it a serious try and that was probably a mistake. But I too was convinced (in the absence of actual experience) that it wouldn't work. Also I didn't mean to imply that in the absence of squares microarmor is way too difficult with rulers and templates. Since restarting microarmor a few months ago I've only used rulers and templates for my public games with my local club (Second Saturday Gamers in Atlanta). But I do mount my vehicles on 1" (25mm) wide stands which mitigates any issues with 8mm wide vehicles.

Tim

taskforce58
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Post by taskforce58 »

You can define hull down by specifying certain edges of a square to be hull-down. If the LOS into that square crosses one of those edges, then it is hull down.
// Edmund Hon

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