Lets talk about ASL, Advanced Squad Leader and Microarmor!

[ZMONSTER]

I'm creating this posting to address Advanced Squad Leader played with 6mm/ 285th scale miniatures. I wont argue strenghts and weaknesses, it's just the medium I have chosen to drive and fight my mini's.

Topics important to me are: (as they relate to the ASL Rulebook 2ed.)
- 3D Terrain effects

- Solitare play

- small unit organization and basing

I'm not a rules know-it-all, but I'm willing to discuss it all.

[DrBig]

The one strength of SL is urban combat. No miniatures system I know of deals with urban to that level of detail. The DASL board's buildings are made in miniature by a company.

[ZMONSTER]

Thanks for the response, the Deluxe Boards are nice, played with my son several times on those boards, but once I saw the 3D terrain on GHQ's site, I was hooked.

I've purchased some of GHQ's buildings and made Latex molds and made plaster copies with some success, maybe pictures later.

[ZMONSTER]

The deluxe hexes are 2.2 inches across, Terrain makers about 4 inches, plenty of room for mini's and other stuff.

Having trouble getting Pictures in the body.

[ZMONSTER]

ZMONSTER"]The deluxe hexes are 2.2 inches across, Terrain makers about 4 inches, plenty of room for mini's and other stuff.

[av8rmongo]

I've purchased some of GHQ's buildings and made Latex molds and made plaster copies with some success, maybe pictures later.

Umm... Not to throw stones or pick a fight but I don't think its in anyone's best interest to openly discuss purposeful copyright/trademark infringement on their own website. My two cents.

Paul

[Rutgervanm]

I was under the impression that it's only trademark infringement if you actually sell your plaster copies after you make casts. Aren't you allowed to use it for your own purposes?

[Ritter]

Seeing those DASL mapboards really brings back some memories!

ASL really does handle urban combat well - the only problem is that to do it right, you really need a flat mapboard. Placement in terrain has always been tough and simplification of rules due to uneven playing surface is Inevitable.

Your best bet, if you want 3D hex terrain, is a simplification - LOS traced to the mini instead of hex center and measured movement - as at 1 to 1, you would need 320 hexes to do a single SL mapboard (most scenarios take two or more boards - at 2 boards, that would be 21 x 7 feet of table!

Troy

[ZMONSTER]

I do have a number of hexes made, the do cover a large area to get a decent setup. My first efforts were towards remaking the actual 1-4 SL/ASL boards. I found the hills difficult to recreate, and the volume of woods on each board involves making a lot of trees.

My solutions has been to paint the area of the woods or forest hex the same color as the trees, and make a thicker line of trees along the margins, and more sparce inside the woods.

So far, measurement during play takes place from the firing unit to the target, not the center of the hex. One opponent found that difficult, since he was use to measuring to the center of a hex. In addition, LOS is LOS, unit to unit.

[ZMONSTER]

Any copies I make, I make for my own use, not to sell or trade. If GHQ find my activities upsetting and illegal. Then I will destroy all copies and molds, and find another source from my miniatures and structures.

I'm in this for fun, not monetary gain.

[av8rmongo]

Hey, I'm not an attorney. I can't say with any authority what is and what isn't copyright infringment. Let's assume that the law does allow you to make a copy of an item for your own use. Each copy, even if legal, takes away a sale that GHQ might otherwise have made - that can't make our hosts happy. Based on that sensitivity - and the real possibility that it does violate copyright I wouldn't post anything that could be used as evidence.

Paul

[Gort]

Yeah I think that paper is definately the way to go in terms of both cost and variety. Don't get me wrong, I own multiples of most of GHQs' current buildings as well as the resin product that they offered previously. All very nice, but not too much variety. Right now 75% of my wargaming (as opposed to diorama) structures are paper. Some purchased from Paper Terrain, but most downloaded for free online. Check out the following site and surf the links.
http://www.ss42.com/toys.html
I must have nearly 100 building files on my hard drive at this point.
ASL is still my favourite for 1:1 gaming. Like Ritter, I too contemplated using terrainmaker hexes to duplicate the mapboards - until I did the math and realized how much room I would need (as well as a way to defy gravity and hover over the mapboard to move the pieces in the middle). I decided on a compromise. I use the GHQ hexes but I don't attempt to recreate the mapboards. I also don't use the scenarios any more. I design my own. I also use a "field modified" version of ASL. Nothing drastic in the way of revisions, just some simple mods to accommodate minis instead of cardboard counters. Since I'm using a 3D terrain board I've ditched most of the LOS rules. I use a miniature laser pointer. Red dot appears on the target - you get to kill it. No red dot - ur SOL dewd. As far as urban combat goes, I am not going to make buildings with removeable roofs and floors. A unit is either in a building or it is not. None of this room to room and floor to floor stuff. Just not worth the hassle in my opinion. All distances are measured in inches rather than hexes, and with GHQs' hexes forming the equivilant of a HUD on the terrain board we only need to use the measuring tapes when a target appears to be borderline between 2 range bands. Anyone who can't eyeball a 6 inch move when there is a 4 inch grid on the table should probably find another hobby.
Over the years I've had people tell me "ASL! You need to be a CPA to figure it out and the rules require an interpretation from SCOTUS every time you roll the dice!" Personaly I have always found the game straight forward and easy to understand, but I have noticed that it seems to draw rules lawyers like crap draws flies. I do have a solution to that little problem that works very well indeed. In the games that i participate in we have several rules lawyers and an incorrigable cheater ("it's only illegal if they catch me"). To keep the game flowing, and to prevent hurt feelings and damaged anatomy, we have instituted a challenge rule not unlike that of the NFL. If someone thinks that an illegal action has taken place they can challenge that action. If the challenger is correct, the illegal action is invalidated (or in the case of movement is returned to the last legal position) and ALL the units under the control of the offending player suffer a 1MC. The 1MC is for a first offence. Get caught a second time and it's a 2MC. A third time and it's a 3MC, etc. ad infinitem. However, if the challenger is wrong, ALL of the units under his control will suffer the penalty. In other words, if you're gonna cheat - don't get caught, and if you're gonna challenge you better be right. We find that this speeds things up quite a bit ( but one guy just didn't get the message and had his day end with a 4MC and all his troops surrendered or run away).
What's the best thing that's ever happened to your side during a game? For me it was a set of hot dice when using a Panther to break a Soviet charge - killed 6 T34s with 7 consecutive shots. My opponent then ran his last T34 up for a point blank flank shot on the same Panther - and rolled a 12. MA malfunction. At that point he just walked away.

regards

Steve

[ZMONSTER]

I have a file folder containing several paper downloads from this forum and other sites. I've even constructed one of the paper houses with some success.

I never thought my plaster buildings would raise such a stink, never gave it one mirco second of thought about copywrite infringement. It just seemed the sensible thing to do. I mean most hobbiests aren't wealthy, having a micro-town with 50 buildings would cost over $600 if all purchased from a company such as GHQ. I for one can't aford that. But at the same time, I don't want to take the food out of the mouths of the owner/investers.

I too abandoned the ASL Map Boards. I prefer to DYO scenario's. I plan to design a random "hex" selection method and play campaigns solitaire with SASL and just move down the road.

As far as the ASL game, my favorite moment occurred while playing a game with two others. My teammate had the armored column, all SS. While I played a dismounted Infantry. I had my MG's in a MG platoon stack with a 9-2 leader. I was firing at a American Heavy MG half a board length away, located in a third story building. I made multiple ROF for several turns, each time breaking the unit attempt to fire the Heavy. I denied the American use of the Heavy for 3.5 turns. This allowed the Armor Column to storm the town, and SS Grenadiers to dismount in the clear and occupy the town. The lone American Player was miffed, said we were ganging up on him. ROFL

[DrBig]

If ASL is too heavy for some, the alternative rules 'Retro' might be your winning ticket. It's a simplification of the system.

[ZMONSTER]

I've not heard of Retro, I'll google it. Well, it may be a simpler system, offering ease of play. But the main reason most ASLer's stick with the game, is the detail and realism.

Although, I may pay $16 and shipping to get a copy to read the Terrain rules. A previous opponent stated his frustration at the vastness of 3D terrain, compaired to the compact nature of 5/8 hexes, and the need for defined 3D terrain rules, ASL is very close but lacking (because of its abstract nature).

I don't have my own web site yet! I really like the laser pointer idea. All of my mini's have loose turrets and no bases. The bases make the mini stand out more against the terrain, add a base, what's the point in camoflage.