Hoping that GHQ produces Civilian Figures and Vehicles

[zaevor2000]

I would personally like to see GHQ produce civilian (Western European w/say Men, reg, clothes (such as polo shirts & khaki pants/T shirt & blue jeans/& suits, women and children).

Proportions might be (I consider this to be a starting point):
15-men in suits
15-men in polo shirts/khakis
15-men in t-shirt/blue jeans
10-women
5-children

I would also like to see GHQ produce common civilian vehicles such as trucks, SUVs, and compact cars.

IMHO, this would be very sellable not only to the wargaming group, but should also prove quite profitable selling to the military for training purposes for planning tactics for a low-intensity urban setting.

This would be beneficial since it would allow the military to teach and train troops how to react to terrorist activities in urban areas as well as guerlla warfare conducted in urban areas.

It would be an outstanding training tool and I can see GHQ sellling many of these sets to the military for training purposes.

Not only would it be sellable to the military but also would be quite useful as training aids for security personnel as well. I would imagine it would become one of the best sellers if done right since it would have universal appeal.

Just my 2 cents.

Frank

[zaevor2000]

To ensure as much appeal as possible to military and security training groups I would recommend the following:

US trucks
3- SUV Tahoe
3- Ford F150

This I believe are I believe the most prevalent trucks.

Japanese cars:
3-Toyota Camry
3-Honda Accord

(Of course I personally would like to see an exotic car pack such as:
1- Ferrari Testarossa
1- Chevy Corvette
1- Lamborghini Countach
1- Porsche 911
1- Ferrari 360

but, I believe priority should be given to the most common vehicles that would be encountered in a mall/city/urban environment to make it as universally appealing to the largest consumer group (military & security forces).

If successful, the range can be expanded to other popular car models that would be encountered such as :

American sedans:
3-Chevy Impala
3-Ford/Dodge (whichever is the most popular)

German vehicles:
2- Mercedes
2- Porsche 911
2- BMW 3-series

I believe segmenting them in this manner (Nationality then Type) will make for a range that can be easily expanded and form a line of its own, similar to the military vehicles.

I would love to see what GHQ could do with this concept!

Frank

[zaevor2000]

A police/security/SWAT pack:
20- Police Officers w/pistol (various poses)
20- Security Personnel (various poses)
20- SWAT team w/M16 rifles

Since I want this to be a good profit center for GHQ I will include this from Wiki:

In the United States and Canada, police departments historically have used standard-size, low-price line sedans such as the Ford Model A or Chevrolet Bel Air. Police switched to intermediates, such as the Plymouth Satellite, Ford Torino and AMC Matador, in the 1960s. The Ford LTD and Chevrolet Caprice were re-adopted as standard when the models were downsized in the late 1970s. Since the termination of the Chevrolet Caprice product, most police departments currently use the Ford Crown Victoria Police Interceptor as the standard patrol car. New North American Crown Victoria Police Interceptors are optionally equipped with a fire suppression system to combat instances of vehicle fires subsequent to high speed rear impacts.

Some departments have adopted SUVs and front-wheel drive sedans for non-pursuit applications, but the rear wheel drive V8 configuration is favored for being consistent with pursuit driver training. General Motors and Chrysler provide other types (front-wheel drive, smaller engine) police vehicles as well, and a few jurisdictions (primarily in Canada) use these vehicles.

There are many jurisdictions that use the Chevrolet Impala, which in its current configuration is a front wheel drive V6. The Dodge Charger (LX) and Dodge Magnum are the most likely challengers to the Crown Victoria as a RWD V8 patrol car, though the Washington State Patrol and the North Carolina Highway Patrol are using the vehicle initially as an unmarked patrol car. The former 44th Precinct in the Bronx NY, now home to a special police task force, has Hemi Dodge Chargers for testing. The Charger has shown great promise as a police car, being faster, more modern, and more fuel efficient than the commonly used Ford Crown Victoria.[original research?] Some complaints about the Charger though are its limited rear visibility and smaller trunk than the Crown Victoria. At the end of 2006, multiple Dodge Chargers have been put into the NYPD fleet for citywide testing. In the summer of 2006, the Georgia State Patrol announced that it would begin using the Dodge Charger for high speed chases on Interstate highways due to its additional power and speed. As of 2007, the Alameda County (California) Sheriff's Office has plans as well to upgrade to the Dodge Charger. Many police agencies in the metropolitan Detroit area have also adopted a fleet that includes a number of Dodge Chargers.

Some state highway patrols (such as California) adopted pony cars such as the Ford Mustang, Chevrolet Camaro or even AMC Javelin as high-speed pursuit vehicles.

Therefore for Police squad cars:

3- Chevy Caprice
3- Ford Crown Victoria

Police SUVs

6- Chevy Tahoe

I am just trying to make some suggestions on packs that will have the most universal appeal and be profitable for GHQ.

Just a thought,

Frank

[DrBig]

You're as bad as JasonAfrika! What do I need boxes of ammo & civilians running around for if I don't have the StuIG33b to blow their homes apart with?! Sheesh.

[zaevor2000]

I'm very sorry for posting. I humbly bow to your superior logic.

Sorry to post.

Frank

[zaevor2000]

If this was a silly idea, please forgive me.

I was only trying to suggest something that I personally believed would appeal to a broad range of potential customers (wargamers,military,law enforcement, security).

I did not mean to waste anyone's bandwidth, but tried to put some thought into what would be a potentially profitable set of packs for GHQ.

This was my contribution to try to help with a reasoned suggestion. I'm sorry if it was not taken that way. I wrote the above in a serious frame of mind and did not intend to be flippant about it.

I hope this finds everyone well!

Frank

[chrisswim]

nice idea, not sure that I would pick up any in any quantities.....

[zaevor2000]

Understood, I was just trying to put some thought into specific packaging that would have a broad appeal to large agencies.

My understanding is that a large portion of GHQ's sales are from large agencies such as the US Army.

Rather than just say, "Make civilian packs", I tried my best to come up with a theoretical compositions of packs that would have the widest applicability and the broadest usefulness and market appeal from a marketing standpoint, not just my own preferences.

Of course, I would LOVE to see GHQ put out an exotic car pack, or maybe a muscle car pack, but I believe the obscurity of the topic and probable minimal sales would render those suggestions not cost-effective at this time. This is why I believe the most marketable blend would be somewhat similar to what I proposed.

I would like to see what others of us would propose as marketable regarding civilians. Do others agree that something similar to this would fill a market need, or what other suggestions do others have, or would this be a good item to place in production?

I am interested in others thoughts.

Frank

[JasonAfrika]

Hey Zaevor, it's a good idea. Keep them coming, cause even if GHQ doesn't produce it, it gives the more open-minded forum members igood ideas. I know that I can make a SWAT van from an English company's vehiicle and I could use GHQ modern infantry, maybe Israelis as the SWAT team, you could put a tiny dab of putty on the face and paint it like a gas mask. I have made police units before but I like your idea better, I did make a CNN camera man and reporter out of an Afghan Stinger figure and a WWII Frecnh officer(Kepi looks like a baseball cap). and painted CNN on the side of a Land Rover. They got hit by a BM-21 barrage in my last game. There is a company that makes civilian vehicles in a scale close to 1/285. they are cheap but not very detailed, but as city wrekage they wotk fine, let me know if you want the link.

[tstockton]

Frank,

I think Dr. Big was just pulling your leg, so to speak...

In my opinion, I think that both appropriate civilians and civilian vehicles would sell fairly well. Battles are not fought in a "vacuum", but often in populated areas. In today's world, civilian vehicles are too often used as weapons (car bombs), but can also be used to transport military personnel -- the example of the French taxicabs during World War I moving troops to the front to counter an attack comes to mind (can't remember which battle, though). And they can be worked into scenarios. Again, I can't remember who posted the "after action report", but I recall reading on this Forum a scenario, WW II, Germans vs. Russians, where a couple of bulldozer-type tractors were included, sitting at a farm. They did not come into play -- but as I recall, either side could have used them to cross a stream / river in some way, thus avoiding the "choke point" a bridge or ford would provide.

As for specific civilians, vehicles and time frames -- I would leave that to folks who know better than me. But ones used in an area of conflict would seem to me to be the most logical choice. For example, we already have some Middle Eastern and Vietnamese civilians -- a good start.

Regards,
Tom Stockton

[DrBig]

Frank,

I think Dr. Big was just pulling your leg, so to speak...

of course, of course!

[zaevor2000]

Thank you very much for the feedback!

I am just trying to contribute as you know.

I was using:

Top 10 Best-Selling Vehicles in 2003

So what's everyone driving these days? Well, these are the models that most often found a spot in buyers' driveways or commercial fleets in 2003. The big news on this list is the rise of the Dodge Ram, which soared past 400,000 units and landed in the number three spot, and the fall of the Ford Explorer, which failed to reach the 400-grand mark for the first time in years, slipping to sixth place overall. The Chevrolet Impala broke into the top 10 for the first time ever in 2003, while the Dodge Caravan and Grand Caravan failed to make the cut.

1. Ford F-Series (includes F-150, F-150 Heritage, F-150 SVT Lightning, F-250 and F-350) — 845,586

2. Chevrolet Silverado (includes 1500, 1500 SS, 2500, 2500HD and 3500) — 684,302

3. Dodge Ram (includes 1500, 1500 SRT-10, 2500 and 3500) — 449,371

4. Toyota Camry and Camry Solara — 413,296

5. Honda Accord — 397,750

6. Ford Explorer and Explorer Sport Trac — 373,118

7. Ford Taurus — 300,496

8. Honda Civic — 299,672

9. Chevrolet Impala — 267,882

10. Chevrolet TrailBlazer and TrailBlazer EXT — 261,334

Source: Automotive News

and also:

Top-Selling Vehicles in the U.S., 2005
Rank Vehicle Number
1. Ford F-Series 901,463
2. Chevrolet Silverado 705,891
3. Toyota Camry 433,703
4. Dodge Ram 400,453
5. Honda Accord 369,293
6. Honda Civic 308,415
7. Nissan Altima 255,371
8. Chevrolet Impala 246,481
9. Chevrolet Malibu 245,861
10. Chevrolet TrailBlazer

I believe these 2 lists would be a good starting point for packs that would include vehicles that military/security/law enforcment would encounter in an urban setting and would be useful for training purposes.

Also, good point on the SWAT van.

Possible Pack for Police vehicles:
1- SWAT Van
2- SUV Tahoe
3- Crown Victory/Chevy Caprice/Chevy Impala whichever is most representative...

Of course not to mention that there could be Battle Pacs:

-US/Western Civilian Pack (w/ cars/SUVs and number of US/European civilian figures)

-Police/Security Pack (w/Van/SUV/squad cars and number of law enforcement/security/SWAT figures)

Thank you very much everyone for the feedback. Tom, as you said Dr.Big was probably joking, but just wanted to be on the safe side!

I hope this finds everyone well!

Frank

[Timothy OConnor]

As far as moderns go, I'm afraid that GHQ is stuck in 1985. Outside of Vietnam and some Afghan figures they're still focused on the the hypothetical "NATO vs WARPAC" conflict that we grew up with instead of ongoing conflicts and likely future ones.

Yes, Israel fought regular Egyptians and Syrians (aka Russians in modeling terms) but they've also waged ongoing wars against irregulars. We've been in North Africa starting in the 90s and are building a whole new command for the continent, we're in Iraq, and we're in Afghanistan. Russia has been fighting the Chechens for years.

All of these conflicts involve civilian vehicles from a modeling perspective (and now gaming perspective with VBIEDs) and I would have prefered to send my money to GHQ! Instead I had to send it to another company.

And throughout the third world there are ongoing insurgencies in which civilian-clad irregulars are fighting conventional forces (typically either clad Russian or circa 1970 American style, so at least we have the conventional side covered!)

It's very promising that GHQ has been aggressive in introducing the latest vehicles such as a complete range of Strykers (kudos GHQ!) and MRAPs. But for the forseeable future those vehicles will be engaging middle eastern and African irregular infantry rather than massed T-72s and BMPs on the plains of Germany. So while we have the latest "good guy vehicles", sadly we lack any credible opfor to play with them outside of central Asian irregulars (the Afghan figures).

Recently a friend of mine convinced me to have a go at 1/72 moderns. I painted some today and realized that I prefer to paint GHQ's figures!!!! But in 20mm / 1/72 it's much easier to find the infantry figures actually engaged in battle currently or likely to in the near future (same can't be said for 1/72 vehicles which limits one to platoon size fights in that scale.)

[zaevor2000]

Good points, Timothy!

As you and others on this thread have said, most of the modern engagements are taking place in urban environments amongst civilians and civilian vehicles.

Packs produced would allow not only us to game likely current events, but could also prove useful to military/security/law enforcement for training purposes since this is the most likely scenario for them and would be very relevant to their current role and environment.

Just my 2 cents. Excellent input from everyone. I'm glad I brought this topic up and tried to put some thought into how the packs would be packaged.

Of course, law enforcements may want motorcycles as well, so:

Police vehicles set:
1- SWAT van
2- SUV Tahoe
3- Ford Crown Victoria
2- police motorcycles

thoughts, anyone?

Frank

[6mmwargaming]

HI

Good ideas but it depends on the timeframe and where the terrain is set.

How about some generic European cars as well? Such as the VW Beetle, Mercedes SL sedans, VW Golf, Fiat 125, Citroen D21, Jaguar XJ and so on.

Cheers
Kieran