Hoping that GHQ produces Civilian Figures and Vehicles

[zaevor2000]

Thank you Kieran,

That was exactly the input I was looking for...

Vehicles that are representative of what you would run into in an urban environment from the 70/80s to the present time.

European vehicles like you mentioned would be very appealing to West Europeans for training purposes as well as providing us wargamers w/ vehicles that would be in the vicinity if the balloon had gone up during the Cold War.

These vehicles could be used for Cold War scenarios as well as to help in training military/security/law enforcement for US/European urban environment for training for military/anti-terrorist/anti-guerilla scenarios and would prove beneficial to all concerned.

It is good to get the input so that we have the most appealing range to the widest market group. If we are able to present a package that is marketable to GHQ we can hopefully see it come to fruition.

This is precisely why I'm trying to avoid any obscure vehicles and trying for us to concentrate on vehicles that would be commonplace.

Thank you very much for the input. Excellent suggestions.

Frank

[Rutgervanm]

Frankly, I don't really care about the exact types of civilian vehicle to be released (which is strange because I am such a rivet counter with the military stuff) and I think that we shouldn't pay too much attention to the exact contents of a future pack as that is for GHQ to decide.

However, I do fully support the idea of releasing more civilian stuff. The lack of a good set of civilian vehicles is very strange and GHQ could do very well filling this gap I think.

Furthermore, I fully support Timothy O'Conners plea for more irregular troops and insurgents. I want to play Black Hawk Down, so I need hundreds of angry Somali's, but there just aren't any suitable figures around. The Brushfire warriors are a nice starting point, but in the end they look way to regular with their uniforms and caps. I could try converting some VC, but the thought of removing hundreds of those Vietnamese hats is too daunting.

Asymmetrical conflicts with irregular civilian clothed enemies are the most important type of warfare being fought today, so we could really use some more figures and vehicles for it!

[Timothy OConnor]

For civilian vehicles I would be happy with even generic models at this point. When I ordered mine from another company the catalog simply listed them as "van" or "SUV" or even "city bus!" Small sedan, medium sedan, fancy/large sedan, SUV, and generic Van would be fine by me and fit the GHQ 5 models per pack approach.

And just as appropriate buildings are critical for setting the right feel for a game, I can assure you that the right vehicles mean a lot too, even from a scenery perspective! I've run my moderns games at our local club, a local game store, and at conventions, and people are really captivated by the inclusion of the civilians vehicles.

In some cases they've served merely as eye candy to help set the atmosphere of "war torn third world nation." In other cases they hide markers for boobytraps or ambushes. And they've even served as transport for irregulars (once we used a couple of city buses to transport muj to a fire fight!)

I suppose for planning purposes GHQ can look at this subject this way: whether civilian amatuers or professional military, can its customers simulate ongong or likely near-future battles in Iraq, Lebanon, Chenya, north Africa, or Afghanistan?

The answer is a very, very limited yes for Afghanistan if one completely ignores the use of civilian vehicles for transport and as a weapons platform in the form of VBIEDs. GHQ amateur and professional military customers can do pure opfor light infantry vs regular conventional forces in the wild country side, and that's it. No urban fights, and no civilian convoys.

Outside of that limited "Afghan Countryside" scenario the answer is a resoinding NO since they don't offer the opfor infantry figures (middle eastern, African, and Chechen/European milita/irregulars), they don't offer the military contractors/Mercs/SpecOps, and they don't offer the opfor and military contractor civilian vehicles most commonly used outside of a single technical model.

My wonderful Strykers and MRAPs need something to fight besides some Afghan militia! Those MRAPs were built to go toe to toe with BMPs!

Tim

[zaevor2000]

Tim you make some outstanding points. I didn't even think about public buses and school buses being utilized to transport not just civilians, but insurgents and guerillas as well.

You are right, it is a gaping hole that hopefully will be filled in the near future.

It is ashame that several people in this thread have had to spend money with other companies to get civilian vehicles/civilians/ had to modify figures to represent police since GHQ doesn't currently produce them.

Hopefully this deficiency can be rectified in the near future.

Like you, I FAR PREFER GHQ products to anything else out there by a mile...







I know I personally will be stocking up on them when they are produced!

I am looking forward to having civilian vehicles around the urban areas just as they are in real life. Tim and Tom you make excellent points that wars are not fought in a vacuum and invariably you have civilians, civilian vehicles, and police in any urban environment you care to name.

There are LOTS of scenarios where you will have civilains about w/civilian vehicles. Not to mention you have conflicts where police have to fight insurgents and guerillas and with their production you will finally have that capability.

Since GHQ usually packs 6-8 small vehicles per pack (such as M113), I can imagine it would be the same for civilian vehicles.

It will be nice to have US/Western European civilians around just as they would be in real life.

This is too glaring an omission in GHQ's line and I'm sure they have put thought into it and are just figuring out what would be the best way to package them.

I certainly look forward to seeing them in production!

Frank

[Mk 1]

I too would be a consumer of civilian figures and/or vehicles.

I might suggest that a few different packs could be produced from a variety of models.
These could be done in combination packs (much like guns and prime movers are) with
perhaps 2 of each of the smaller vehicles (sedans, carts/wagons), and one of each of
the larger vehicles (trucks, busses). I'd be a buyer for both a modern set, and a WW2
set. Might take more than 1 set for moderns, as it is such a wide timespan.

A coupe, a sedan, a van, a light truck, a semi-rig, and a bus would be nice for moderns.
A 1930s style sedan, a light/medium truck, a bus, and farm carts / wagons would be
nice for WW2.

But while we wait ...


With a razor, some putty, a file, and some imaginative painting you can do a suprising
amount of civies just by using existing military vehicles. Take one or two of each of the
truck styles you already have, and one or two of each of the jeeps/command cars, and
get to it! Some of them, like the Soviet GAZ-AA trucks, don't even need conversion ...
just paint them up (it was a license-built copy of the most popular civilian truck of the
1930s, the Ford Model AA).

[zaevor2000]

Hey Zaevor, it's a good idea. Keep them coming, cause even if GHQ doesn't produce it, it gives the more open-minded forum members igood ideas. I know that I can make a SWAT van from an English company's vehiicle and I could use GHQ modern infantry, maybe Israelis as the SWAT team, you could put a tiny dab of putty on the face and paint it like a gas mask. I have made police units before but I like your idea better, I did make a CNN camera man and reporter out of an Afghan Stinger figure and a WWII Frecnh officer(Kepi looks like a baseball cap). and painted CNN on the side of a Land Rover. They got hit by a BM-21 barrage in my last game. There is a company that makes civilian vehicles in a scale close to 1/285. they are cheap but not very detailed, but as city wrekage they wotk fine, let me know if you want the link.

JasonAfrika, I appreciate your kind offer of other's company's products, but I sincerely hope and pray that GHQ is able to produce their own line of civilian/civilian vehicle/police packs. As you know when you mod it just doesn't look as good as when something is designed from the ground up.

As a long-time GHQ customer (since 1978), the only foreigners (only about 10 minis out of over 2000) are ones of equipment that are no longer used and would make no sense for GHQ to produce. I have personally found GHQ's quality to be the best you will find ANYWHERE and once I started to order from them instead of buying from local hobby stores I have found them to be very nice and extremely helpful. The very personification of good people.

I believe GHQ is well aware of the gap that they can fill by issuing these packs and are putting thought into the best way to do this. As other long time customers have already posted in this thread, they have all had to go elsewhere and fulfill this need for civilian based figures and vehicles. This is most unfortunate and hopefully will be rectified in the near future. I would prefer to hold out a bit longer, unless it is not in the pipeline and then will have to take you up on your suggestion to use other company's products.

I would prefer it to be GHQ. The quality of both their products and the people in their company are the ones I prefer to spend my money with. With me it is not only the product but you also buy the people as well and GHQ's are as good as gold.

Your offer is much appreciated and displays that you want to be helpful in aiding me in filling a gap in my minis that I (and apparently others as well) would REALLY love to see GHQ fill in the near future.

This is why I, Mk1, and others are trying to propose possible package contents. Because we care and want GHQ to have excellent sales with them so that they can expand the line!

Thanks to everyone for their input!

I hope this finds everyone well!

Frank


Frank

[voltigeur]

I would also like to see a neutral civilian pack of vehicles and people. Wars are not fought in a vacuum and force on force with out the presence of civilians is only realistic in the desert and even there you have nomads and small hamlets centered around scarce water sources.

Civilian vehicles can be used to jam roadways and provide street cover on our “plaster you can’t get inside the buildingâ€￾ towns.

A friend once suggested that you should always make the terrain look like somewhere you would actually want to live. Civilian vehicles and people would help with that aspect.

[zaevor2000]

Excellent points Voltigeur!

Thanks for chiming in!

Hopefully in the near future we will have civilians/ civilian vehicles/ police to greatly enhance the realism of our games.

Thanks to everyone for contributing and raising some excellent points!

I hope this finds everyone well!

Frank

[Timothy OConnor]

I fear that we're in for a long wait Frank.

It appears that GHQ is revd up to address the market opportunity for models representing fictional German forces circa 1947.

I had no idea such alternate history gaming was doing so well! My impression was that "Weird War II" style gaming pretty much crashed and burned but maybe there's seething, untapped demand (of at least niche-scope) for such models (Remember Crimson Skies? Don't feel bad if you don't, everyone else has forgotten it too).

Maybe once they get the Weird War II stuff out of their system they'll come back to their military and historical/current affairs-oriented customers. I think every miniature company goes through these phases and hopefully GHQ will be able to weather it financially.

[Rutgervanm]

As so many of you, I also cannot see the logic in starting a whole new line, when so many gaps exist in the current WW2 and modern lines. While the opinions quickly diverge when it comes down to summing up exactly WHAT is missing, I think we can all agree on a few basics like more modern civilian vehicles and insurgents and Soviet rifle infantry. Perhaps it's time we started something like Donald M. Scheef's list of micronaut mentions to create a 'metawishlist' of moderns and WW2.

However, as I said before, allmost every wargamer is familiar with the principle of starting cool new projects before the old ones are finished. How many of us have not made impulsive buys or started impulsive projects, while rationally we knew we should finish the other stuff first (or have the wife or girlfriend tell us ). I suppose it works the same for GHQ. I'm sure they are all gamers and modellers too, who get really exited over new projects. Once they get in your head, it's hard not to act on them.

Now, one could question if it is sensible for a business to act on that kind of excitement, but then again, where would we be today without a little creativity and dynamism. While on a personal level I certainly don't think it is a good decision (as Werhmacht '47 has absolutely no interest for me), perhaps I can understand why they did it.