Russian - Georgian Conflict

[BattlerBritain]

Take your pick of the versions:

[Ben]

Hi,

from what Isee, I would say the second photo in the first row doesn't show a destroyed T-72B but a T-72BM, which is equipped with Kontakt 5 ERA (note the angle of the remaining ERA blocks). Such vehicles can also be seen in the background on the other photo of Russian T-72.

Just my 2 cents.

Cheers Ben

OK, just saw that you refer T-72B Model 1989 to them...

[chrisswim]

I understand the conflict is still going on, wish it wasn't...! Gosh, Irag and Afgan conflicts are still happening. Wish those were not either. Sudan is still having civil conflict. We are still buying Toyota technicals, Styrkers, Bradley, t-72s etc. I remeber gaming just after Irag's invasion of Kuwait in 1990. The local newspaper came out....

So I will continue to pray for peace.

Good idea on the VBL to represent the Otokar.

[Rutgervanm]

Yup, they are pretty nice vehicles. Wasn't aware of their existence until I saw the footage. Using a Panhard VBL as a basis, you'd have to lengthen them a bit and add a turret. Also, the angle of the side armour is a bit larger with the Otokar, but I don't think you'll notice in 6mm.

I understand the comparison being made with gaming Iraq, but that conflict is more than 5 years old right now. Most games I've seen of that conflict simulate clashes of the initial conquest against Iraqi regulars or stuff from the early occupation (Fallujah, etc). It's easier to place your game in a more or less generic, anonymous setting, taking place quite some time ago.

In my opinion that is a little different from the situation in Georgia, where some of the casualties have probably not even been buried yet.

Even with that difference though, there is no objective reason not to start talking about it allready, and I must say that all that footage of Russian and Georgian kit in action is getting me anxious to start on the modern Russians from a friend which I'm supposed to paint.

[chrisswim]

Sure, good comprehensive evalutation. Anyone wanna play Ukraine & Russa? or some other former Soviet territory?

[Harlan]

What is the difference between the T-72AV SIM-1 and the standard T-72AV and the T-72B?

[Ben]

Hi Harlan,

IMO most noticeable is the different mounting of the ERA blocks (Kontakt 1 ERA).
Interestingly to me is that the T-72AV on the photo lacks the IR searchlight, which would limit its (already limited) night fighting capabilities (if no sophisticated optronics are installed, which is afaik not common with such T-72 models but maybe this is meant with SIM-1 upgrade, which I am not familiar with). The info on the T-72AV I found so far do not mention sophisticated night vision equipment.
The original armour protection (wo. ERA) T-72B saw some improvements compared to the T-72A (which is the basis for the T-72AV, as AV designates the version fitted with ERA).

Hopefully this is of some help...

Cheers Ben

[voltigeur]

Wouldn't the absence of the IR search light be an indication of a thermal imaging retro fit? Also since the IR search light will show up like a beacon its use (at least in active mode) would be suicidal.

[Ben]

Wouldn't the absence of the IR search light be an indication of a thermal imaging retro fit? Also since the IR search light will show up like a beacon its use (at least in active mode) would be suicidal.

Yes indeed, I thought the same way - in fact I meant such thermal imaging using the term sophisticated optronics/night vision equipment. On the other hand I also see the possibility that they just cut off the IR searchlight without adding new thermal imaging...
From my sources state of the art thermals are still not as widespread within the Russian/CIS forces (they are improving it) as such items are in most NATO armies.

Kind regards,
Ben

[Harlan]

Here is what I found on wikipedia.

T-72 SIM-1 - New FALCON command and control system, GPS navigation system and new thermal device. It has also a friend-or-foe recognition system.

[armorinscale]

BM-21 in action.

http://news.sky.com/skynews/Home/Georgi ... 2C%2BTanks

Actually,this is BM-22

[jb]

Well,here goes. I was informed yesterday that I'm to take place in a mini campaign. The area of operations is the Georgia, and I'm to take the Russian side. This being so, I chose to take the 20th Guards Motor Rilfe Division. As a twist to this "hypothetical" situation, the PLA or Chinese army was granted access through Afghanistan and other states to help quell this invasion. Too bad it is not taking place on the western side,because I could then use the Black Sea Fleet along with Naval infantry.
Sometimes reality generates some obscure scenarios for wargaming...