1:1 scale gaming question,

[dougeagle]

Hi gang,

I'm looking the possibility of doing modern warfare (late 70's early 80's) on the 1:1 scale, 1 infantry stand= 1 squad, 1 gun= 1 gun and so on with battles being at company size. However, after doing a search I have not found the answer that I am looking for, which is basically this.
In the Soviet forces, how many tanks/ infantry/ IFV were in a battalion?
Same question above also applies to German, UK forces?

I appreciate the help guys,

[Gort]

For the Russian/Soviet forces :

http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/ ... 63/toc.htm

1996 IIRC, but very detailed.

http://www.armouredacorn.com/orbatrussian1.html

less detailed but very informative nevertheless, but you may have to go up one level and get the legend page first.

Hope this helps.

regards,

Steve

[Mk 1]

In the Soviet forces, how many tanks/ infantry/ IFV were in a battalion?

Depends on the type of battalion. Here are some examples:

Typical tank battalion in a tank division:

Bat total: 31 tanks

-Bat HQ: 1 tank (plus other vehicles, but 1 tank)

-Subtotal 1st Coy: 10 tanks
-->1st Coy HQ: 1 tank
-->1st Coy 1st Plt: 3 tanks
-->1st Coy 2nd Plt: 3 tanks
-->1st Coy 3rd Plt: 3 tanks

-Subtotal 2nd Coy: 10 tanks

-Subtotal 3rd Coy: 10 tanks


Typically there would be 1 scout car, 1 command car, 1 APC, and some number of trucks in the Bat as well.

The APC and command car would form a rear HQ element under the Bat Exec Officer, while the Bat CO lead the unit into battle in his HQ tank. The scout car would serve as liason, maybe between the CO and the rear HQ, or to some other unit on the flanks, or wherever the CO wanted. One or more of the trucks would be for the Bat medical officer / aid post. One or more for the maintenance officer and his crew. Several trucks for the Bat supply officer (responsible for carrying down from Bat to Coys, not for going up from Bat to Reg for supplies). One medium truck for each Coy, manned by the Coy Exec Officer and 1st Sgt. Also there might be attachments of an arty Fwd Control officer in an APC or a plt of SPAA with a battalion depending on the mission, who would typically travel with the Bat CO.

For a tank battalion in an infantry division you might see a similar structure, but 4 tanks per Plt, so 13 tanks per Coy, so 40 tanks per Bat.

Hope that helps.

[Timothy OConnor]

http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/army/doc ... Chap2I.htm

Link above is to ST100-7, the US military's take on Soviet-style OPFOR organization. LOTS of detail from the individual level to division+. I wish there were something as comprehensive for US forces! (US info is scattered and buried all over the place).

I have a PDF version if you want it, can't remember where I pulled it from (somewhere on the web).

Tim

EDITL http://elearndesign.org/tlacbeta/ikmeC1 ... 15/46.html

link to PDF version, more complete than HTML version!

[Barklay1810]

I would not worry about having the right number of figures in the battalion. You are seeking to game combat, and during combat operations battalions tend to change shape due to breakdowns, air attacks, crews becoming ill, etc. The only time a unit will have the right number of vehicles is just after being offloaded off the rail transport, and gaming the logistics is not much fun Cross-attachments meant that a battalion was never complete anyway, what with security for higher HQ or some vital position, or a logistic depot that needs to be taken care of in the rear.

Soviet infantry battalion orgs in 1970s are a bit of a nightmare for wargamers. Starting with the newest, you had BMP-1 equipped battalions and their BTR-60 brethren, the BTR-50 units with entirely different allocations of troops vehicles, the third line truck-infantry.

The tanks were fairly standard with 31 to a battalion. However the new T-64s and T-72s tended to break down more often earlier in their introduction (as did the M-60s or almost any other new tank) so again, you are unlikely to find complete battalions in the forward echelons.

I would actually advise you consider using 1 infantry base to represent a platoon rather than a section. If you work out the frontages, that is what it works out as relative to the ground occupied by the vehicles. This is an old old debate and is of course linked tot he rules you use.

Just collect minis, and use what you have.

Cheers

[Timothy OConnor]

To Barklay's excellent point:

Soviet Tank Platoon @ 1:1
3x tank models
Three of these platoons = 1 company

Soviet Tank Company @ ~3:1
3x tank models
Three of these companies = 1 battalion

American Tank Platoon @ 1:1
4 tank models
Three of these platoons = 1 company

American Tank Company @ ~3:1
4x tank models
Three of these companies = 1 battalion

In other words, don't sweat it too much! In both cases you'll have three units, each with 3-4 models. You'll move these units/models and roll dice to see if you can eliminate opposing models.

Tim

[voltigeur]

For your collection you only need to decide if you want a tank or mech infantry force. A typical battalion at the time frame you are asking about would be:

Infantry: 31 BMP or BTR 60; 13 tanks Support 6 BTR50 mortars, 2 zsu 23/4 and 2 sa9's

Tanks: 31 Tanks; 10 BMP 2 ZSU 23/4 2 SA9's

The next thing I would get is a recon company 3 BMP; 6 BRDM2 One command BRDM. THis breaks into 3 platoons each containing 2 BRDM and one BMP.

A variation for your time frame 2 Motor cycles, brdm 1 AND PT76 light tank.

There aare other support vehicles and I'm sure everone will chime in for something I didn't list but that will give you a core and you add artillery and other support later.

[BattlerBritain]

A good set of TOE's for the Brits is here:
http://orbat.com/site/toe/toe/uk/uk_toe.pdf

Battler