Paul,
If you're talking about the labels I use as shown in the pictures above, send me a PM and I will send you what I have.
Chris
Micronaut Only Thread
Moderators: dnichols, GHQ, Mk 1
-
paul
- E5
- Posts: 570
- Joined: Sun Dec 12, 2004 9:06 am
- Location: Orlando Area
I'm getting ready to paint my first batch of warships. I have some US Porter destroyers and the Japanese cruiser Tone. Could someone help me with the colors?
I believe the deck and lower hull on the Porter's should be a blue-gray. For the Tone I believe the deck is maghoney or shoudl it be a lighter color? What shade of gray for both ships? Lastly, I know a ring is painted on the Tone's smoke stack, not sure about the Porter's, is the ring black or white. I have seen both listed. To help I'm looking at the year being 1942.
What are some good books that describe the ship colors? I know about the camouflage website and plan to get their color cards but was hoping that there might be some other books that will offer some more assistance.
I believe the deck and lower hull on the Porter's should be a blue-gray. For the Tone I believe the deck is maghoney or shoudl it be a lighter color? What shade of gray for both ships? Lastly, I know a ring is painted on the Tone's smoke stack, not sure about the Porter's, is the ring black or white. I have seen both listed. To help I'm looking at the year being 1942.
What are some good books that describe the ship colors? I know about the camouflage website and plan to get their color cards but was hoping that there might be some other books that will offer some more assistance.
-
battlewagon
- E5
- Posts: 231
- Joined: Wed May 11, 2005 10:57 am
- Location: San Diego, CA
Regarding the Tone class cruiser, I use the Model Master Military Brown for the decks because many of my sources describe the lineolum decking as being close to a chocolate brown. I use a dark grey on the hull.
For the Porter class destroyers, is there a particular time / battle you want to represent? That would narrow down the camouflage patterns you could use. The decks will most likely be "deck blue" which is a blue-gray color.
I have purchased paint chip sets from the Floating Drydock to match the colors to my reference books. I hope this helps.
For the Porter class destroyers, is there a particular time / battle you want to represent? That would narrow down the camouflage patterns you could use. The decks will most likely be "deck blue" which is a blue-gray color.
I have purchased paint chip sets from the Floating Drydock to match the colors to my reference books. I hope this helps.
Always respect the law of gross tonnage (aka "bigger boat wins")
-
battlewagon
- E5
- Posts: 231
- Joined: Wed May 11, 2005 10:57 am
- Location: San Diego, CA
But wait...there's more....
Re: The Tone - The funnel bands were used for identification purposes in the 1930's. According to my references they were phased out in September of 1941. The hull and superstructure are a dark gray. Tamiya makes gray colors in spray cans for each of the four major Japanese wartime ship yards, 3 out of 4 of them are pretty dark. I went with the Model Master European 1 Gray as being a good approximation. The funnel cap should be black.
I re-read your post and saw 1942 was the year you were looking for. Here are the most likely (but not all) "Measures" the ships were sporting then:
Measure 12 (Basic - graded) sounds like what you described: Sea blue from the water line to the top the highest full deck level, Ocean gray on the superstructure and Haze gray for anything above the superstructure and Deck blue on all decks.
Measure 12 Modified uses the same colors in a variety of "splotch patterns, with Sea blue and Ocean gray on the hull and Ocean gray and Haze gray on the superstructure.
Deck blue on all decks.
Other Measures from the early months of the war include hull and superstructures that are dark gray (measure 1) light gray (Measure 3) and Haze gray (Measure 13) and Sea blue (Measure 11...all surfaces are Sea blue...might as well dip the ship in the paint!)
I hope this helps, post again if you want more details on a particular scheme.
Re: The Tone - The funnel bands were used for identification purposes in the 1930's. According to my references they were phased out in September of 1941. The hull and superstructure are a dark gray. Tamiya makes gray colors in spray cans for each of the four major Japanese wartime ship yards, 3 out of 4 of them are pretty dark. I went with the Model Master European 1 Gray as being a good approximation. The funnel cap should be black.
I re-read your post and saw 1942 was the year you were looking for. Here are the most likely (but not all) "Measures" the ships were sporting then:
Measure 12 (Basic - graded) sounds like what you described: Sea blue from the water line to the top the highest full deck level, Ocean gray on the superstructure and Haze gray for anything above the superstructure and Deck blue on all decks.
Measure 12 Modified uses the same colors in a variety of "splotch patterns, with Sea blue and Ocean gray on the hull and Ocean gray and Haze gray on the superstructure.
Deck blue on all decks.
Other Measures from the early months of the war include hull and superstructures that are dark gray (measure 1) light gray (Measure 3) and Haze gray (Measure 13) and Sea blue (Measure 11...all surfaces are Sea blue...might as well dip the ship in the paint!)
I hope this helps, post again if you want more details on a particular scheme.
Always respect the law of gross tonnage (aka "bigger boat wins")
-
paul
- E5
- Posts: 570
- Joined: Sun Dec 12, 2004 9:06 am
- Location: Orlando Area
-
cbovill
- E5
- Posts: 439
- Joined: Mon Dec 13, 2004 5:20 am
- Location: Las Vegas, NV
Paul,
The sources I've got state that the four ships of the Mogami class were taken in hand at the Kure Navy Yard in 1939-40 and re-armed as heavy cruisers with 10 x 8" guns each. They would not have been armed with a mixed battery of 6" and 8" guns. Just imagine the fire control trouble that would have caused, not to mention everything else that would be affected by having two different calibres of gun in the main battery.
Chris
The sources I've got state that the four ships of the Mogami class were taken in hand at the Kure Navy Yard in 1939-40 and re-armed as heavy cruisers with 10 x 8" guns each. They would not have been armed with a mixed battery of 6" and 8" guns. Just imagine the fire control trouble that would have caused, not to mention everything else that would be affected by having two different calibres of gun in the main battery.
Chris
-
battlewagon
- E5
- Posts: 231
- Joined: Wed May 11, 2005 10:57 am
- Location: San Diego, CA
I concur, by the time Japan and America were at war all of the Mogami class cruisers were carrying 5 - twin 8" turrets instead of the 6.1" turrets.cbovill wrote:Paul,
The sources I've got state that the four ships of the Mogami class were taken in hand at the Kure Navy Yard in 1939-40 and re-armed as heavy cruisers with 10 x 8" guns each. They would not have been armed with a mixed battery of 6" and 8" guns. Just imagine the fire control trouble that would have caused, not to mention everything else that would be affected by having two different calibres of gun in the main battery.
Chris
Always respect the law of gross tonnage (aka "bigger boat wins")
-
Mikee
- E5
- Posts: 145
- Joined: Sat Sep 08, 2007 3:32 am
- Location: Oakland, CA
Paul:
Just saw your e-mails. For ship colors, etc, try Snyder & Short Enterprises (I think their web site is shipcamouflage.com). They have a big line of color chips for U.S. IJN, Ger, UK and Italian WWII colors. They have collected data from all over the world, and have the most up-to-date info on colors. They also sell a wide range of WEM colourcoat paints (an english company, I think), which are based on the paint chip charts. I've been using these paints for 2 - 3 years (or more). I do have a certain amount of trouble with WEM paints - they seem to go bad quicker than some others - but they are accurate.
Insofar as US colors are concerned, you will find that the deck blue is a very dark gray-blue. Also, my information (mostly from Snyder & Short) is that sea blue was not used all that much, as it was soon replaced by Navy Blue (a much darker blue). I've painted a few ships sea blue, when I could find info on them, but most, including those with a MS 12m pattern, are painted with navy blue.
At one time, Randy Short (of S. & S.) thought that the USS Arizona was painted in sea blue at Pearl Harbor. I painted my Arizona in that color; we compared the "battle line" pictures with my models and decided that Arizona was in dark gray. The sea blue is so much lighter than the old dark gray that it should have really shown up in the old black and white photos.
There's lots of sources for the US camouflage patterns, if you're looking for them. "Floating Drydock" has lots of stuff, and several books on this ot that class have a plethora of info. At one time there was also a site for camo. on the us naval int=stitute, I think, but something happened to the site and it's not as useful (if you can even access it any more.) Right now, for example, I'm painting a bunch of Benson/Gleaves DDs in different patterns, based on pictures in the Benson/Gleaves book and on pattern dwgs. I got from Floating Drydock years ago.
Incidentally, the US flight deck color is a much lighter blue than "deck Blue."
Mikee
Just saw your e-mails. For ship colors, etc, try Snyder & Short Enterprises (I think their web site is shipcamouflage.com). They have a big line of color chips for U.S. IJN, Ger, UK and Italian WWII colors. They have collected data from all over the world, and have the most up-to-date info on colors. They also sell a wide range of WEM colourcoat paints (an english company, I think), which are based on the paint chip charts. I've been using these paints for 2 - 3 years (or more). I do have a certain amount of trouble with WEM paints - they seem to go bad quicker than some others - but they are accurate.
Insofar as US colors are concerned, you will find that the deck blue is a very dark gray-blue. Also, my information (mostly from Snyder & Short) is that sea blue was not used all that much, as it was soon replaced by Navy Blue (a much darker blue). I've painted a few ships sea blue, when I could find info on them, but most, including those with a MS 12m pattern, are painted with navy blue.
At one time, Randy Short (of S. & S.) thought that the USS Arizona was painted in sea blue at Pearl Harbor. I painted my Arizona in that color; we compared the "battle line" pictures with my models and decided that Arizona was in dark gray. The sea blue is so much lighter than the old dark gray that it should have really shown up in the old black and white photos.
There's lots of sources for the US camouflage patterns, if you're looking for them. "Floating Drydock" has lots of stuff, and several books on this ot that class have a plethora of info. At one time there was also a site for camo. on the us naval int=stitute, I think, but something happened to the site and it's not as useful (if you can even access it any more.) Right now, for example, I'm painting a bunch of Benson/Gleaves DDs in different patterns, based on pictures in the Benson/Gleaves book and on pattern dwgs. I got from Floating Drydock years ago.
Incidentally, the US flight deck color is a much lighter blue than "deck Blue."
Mikee
-
ww2navyguy
- E5
- Posts: 328
- Joined: Sat Jul 30, 2005 8:21 am
- Location: Sunny Florida
-
cbovill
- E5
- Posts: 439
- Joined: Mon Dec 13, 2004 5:20 am
- Location: Las Vegas, NV
Okay, it took me the better part of a month to get to the point where I am now able to show my very first US Navy ship completed. I actually started out building the following ships:
USS Intrepid CV-11 (Measure 21)
USS Yorktown CV-5 (Measure 12)
USS Lexington CV-2 (Measure 11)
USS Curtiss AV-4 (Measure 12)
USS Neosho AO-23 (Measure 12)
USS Tippecanoe AO-21 (Measure 12)
However, I am building the Intrepid for a friend of mine whose now deceased grand father served on her during the Marshalls/Truk raids of January/February 1944. He is planning on presenting it to his dad as something for him to remember his dad by. I am honored that he asked me to complete such a noble project. Since I need it to be completed by Thanksgiving, I suspended all work on the other ships and put all effort into getting the Fighting "I" finished.
Now it has been many years since I began a new fleet, and my goal was to hone my skills so that by the time I got to the Pacific theater of WWII, I would be able to do justice to the USN and the IJN. Building the RN definitely put my skills to the test.
Of course, it is not so simple as to just decide one day to build the USN. It has taken a ton of research and painstaking trial and error just to get this one ship built, but this research was necessary to prep me for the whole fleet. I feel like I spent the late summer and fall tooling up to start building the USN and now I can finally start turning out ships and aircraft.
USS Intrepid CV-11:
This ship challenged me in every conceivable way throughout her construction. First off, I had to make a few modifications to her to make her a better match for how the Intrepid looked during the Marshalls raid. So I’ve added four radio aerials along the starboard flight deck in the down position for flight operations. I’ve added a sponson to the port side of the island superstructure for the IFF antenna, the yard arm to the main mast, and I had to build an SG radar set and aerial on top of the main mast. Also added a jack post to the homing beacon mast abaft the funnel complete with US flag. She also needed her catapults carved into the flight deck forward.
Once she was ready for painting was when the real challenge began. I had purchased the Model Master Marine Acrylics line since it was the only one available at my local hobby store. Of course, right after I started buying the paint, it seems MM has decided not to continue with their Marine line - great! Intrepid, like the other early E s s e x class wore Measure 21 from commissioning all the way to her first overhaul/repairs. This scheme is nothing but 5-N Navy Blue over all surfaces and then a light/medium blue stain on the flight deck. MM 5-N Navy Blue came out with no discernable trace of any blue pigments. The ship looked dark gray instead. So I ended up stripping all the paint off with oven cleaner and started over. I toyed with switching to White Ensign enamels but didn't want to spend all that money on paint when I just spent a ton of money on Model Master paint.
After researching what 5-N Navy Blue should look like I mixed up a custom batch of three parts 5-N Navy Blue to one part 5-S Sea Blue and painted her again. This came out very dark and blue which was fine, because then I sprayed her with a wash of standard navy gray to tone down the blue and give her a faded appearance; after all, she has been out at sea for quite a long time.
The flight deck was an absolute chore - had to paint on three dotted lines going up and down the length of the flight deck, each stopping at different points with the center line lighter than the others and off center to starboard. I chose light gray for the lines as that is what was specified in SHIPS-2 and it also looked good for the scale effect. Painted the numbers and elevator details in black with microfine ink pens of size 0.3mm, 0.5mm and 1.0mm.
For the heavy weathering she was going to require, I used a set of Tamiya solid pigments in rust, soot and snow colors. These three were perfect together. The snow actually gives that calcified look that occurs on paint subjected to sea water - brilliant! Used some special micro fiber brushes I had purchased years ago for another project for which they proved ill suited, but for this purpose, they were perfect at getting into all those crevices.
Then it was time to seal up the paint job with some flat clearcoat. I sprayed what I thought was flat clearcoat on the ship, but I must tell you, Tamiya X-21 Flat Base is not that at all! It turned the whole ship a frost color! Weeks of work gone! I felt so sick looking at her, all my work destroyed in an instant!
I immediately loaded my airbrush with Isopropyl Alcohol and started dousing the ship in it. When wet the ships colors were back, but then it would dry with that damned frost again. Ran it under this sink with warm water, still frosted. Finally, grabbed the q-tips and started rubbing her down with the alcohol again (boy I could have used some myself!). This worked,but it also took off all my weathering and most of the wash.
Went back to the drawing board and re-weathered the ship again! I swear I have had to do every step on this ship at least twice. But I so wanted her to be perfect. So now here she is without her air group. I am actually building Air Group 6 right now for her although it will be missing the Grumman TBF Avengers because instead of ordering the carrier airplane packs, I custom ordered the aircraft in the quantities I would need for building lots of aircraft for simulating the carrier air battles. Well in three tries GHQ was unable to get me the TBF's, instead I now own 86 Dauntless SBD's and 126 Curtiss SB2C's. Oh well.
This was definitely a labor of love, and I am proud to show her to you. I'll post more pictures when her air group is completed. Enjoy!
Chris
USS Intrepid CV-11 (Measure 21)
USS Yorktown CV-5 (Measure 12)
USS Lexington CV-2 (Measure 11)
USS Curtiss AV-4 (Measure 12)
USS Neosho AO-23 (Measure 12)
USS Tippecanoe AO-21 (Measure 12)
However, I am building the Intrepid for a friend of mine whose now deceased grand father served on her during the Marshalls/Truk raids of January/February 1944. He is planning on presenting it to his dad as something for him to remember his dad by. I am honored that he asked me to complete such a noble project. Since I need it to be completed by Thanksgiving, I suspended all work on the other ships and put all effort into getting the Fighting "I" finished.
Now it has been many years since I began a new fleet, and my goal was to hone my skills so that by the time I got to the Pacific theater of WWII, I would be able to do justice to the USN and the IJN. Building the RN definitely put my skills to the test.
Of course, it is not so simple as to just decide one day to build the USN. It has taken a ton of research and painstaking trial and error just to get this one ship built, but this research was necessary to prep me for the whole fleet. I feel like I spent the late summer and fall tooling up to start building the USN and now I can finally start turning out ships and aircraft.
USS Intrepid CV-11:
This ship challenged me in every conceivable way throughout her construction. First off, I had to make a few modifications to her to make her a better match for how the Intrepid looked during the Marshalls raid. So I’ve added four radio aerials along the starboard flight deck in the down position for flight operations. I’ve added a sponson to the port side of the island superstructure for the IFF antenna, the yard arm to the main mast, and I had to build an SG radar set and aerial on top of the main mast. Also added a jack post to the homing beacon mast abaft the funnel complete with US flag. She also needed her catapults carved into the flight deck forward.
Once she was ready for painting was when the real challenge began. I had purchased the Model Master Marine Acrylics line since it was the only one available at my local hobby store. Of course, right after I started buying the paint, it seems MM has decided not to continue with their Marine line - great! Intrepid, like the other early E s s e x class wore Measure 21 from commissioning all the way to her first overhaul/repairs. This scheme is nothing but 5-N Navy Blue over all surfaces and then a light/medium blue stain on the flight deck. MM 5-N Navy Blue came out with no discernable trace of any blue pigments. The ship looked dark gray instead. So I ended up stripping all the paint off with oven cleaner and started over. I toyed with switching to White Ensign enamels but didn't want to spend all that money on paint when I just spent a ton of money on Model Master paint.
After researching what 5-N Navy Blue should look like I mixed up a custom batch of three parts 5-N Navy Blue to one part 5-S Sea Blue and painted her again. This came out very dark and blue which was fine, because then I sprayed her with a wash of standard navy gray to tone down the blue and give her a faded appearance; after all, she has been out at sea for quite a long time.
The flight deck was an absolute chore - had to paint on three dotted lines going up and down the length of the flight deck, each stopping at different points with the center line lighter than the others and off center to starboard. I chose light gray for the lines as that is what was specified in SHIPS-2 and it also looked good for the scale effect. Painted the numbers and elevator details in black with microfine ink pens of size 0.3mm, 0.5mm and 1.0mm.
For the heavy weathering she was going to require, I used a set of Tamiya solid pigments in rust, soot and snow colors. These three were perfect together. The snow actually gives that calcified look that occurs on paint subjected to sea water - brilliant! Used some special micro fiber brushes I had purchased years ago for another project for which they proved ill suited, but for this purpose, they were perfect at getting into all those crevices.
Then it was time to seal up the paint job with some flat clearcoat. I sprayed what I thought was flat clearcoat on the ship, but I must tell you, Tamiya X-21 Flat Base is not that at all! It turned the whole ship a frost color! Weeks of work gone! I felt so sick looking at her, all my work destroyed in an instant!
I immediately loaded my airbrush with Isopropyl Alcohol and started dousing the ship in it. When wet the ships colors were back, but then it would dry with that damned frost again. Ran it under this sink with warm water, still frosted. Finally, grabbed the q-tips and started rubbing her down with the alcohol again (boy I could have used some myself!). This worked,but it also took off all my weathering and most of the wash.
Went back to the drawing board and re-weathered the ship again! I swear I have had to do every step on this ship at least twice. But I so wanted her to be perfect. So now here she is without her air group. I am actually building Air Group 6 right now for her although it will be missing the Grumman TBF Avengers because instead of ordering the carrier airplane packs, I custom ordered the aircraft in the quantities I would need for building lots of aircraft for simulating the carrier air battles. Well in three tries GHQ was unable to get me the TBF's, instead I now own 86 Dauntless SBD's and 126 Curtiss SB2C's. Oh well.
This was definitely a labor of love, and I am proud to show her to you. I'll post more pictures when her air group is completed. Enjoy!
Chris
-
CA-68
- Posts: 78
- Joined: Thu Aug 09, 2007 8:35 pm
-
av8rmongo
- E5
- Posts: 1637
- Joined: Sat Dec 11, 2004 8:24 pm
- Location: Newport, RI
- Contact:
Chris,
If you want to unload some the excess Dauntlesses and Helldivers I'm interested.
Paul
If you want to unload some the excess Dauntlesses and Helldivers I'm interested.
Paul
“It's a beautiful thing, the destruction of words.â€
― George Orwell, 1984
People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf.
- George Orwell
http://av8rmongo.wordpress.com
― George Orwell, 1984
People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf.
- George Orwell
http://av8rmongo.wordpress.com
-
Donald M. Scheef
- E5
- Posts: 1629
- Joined: Sun Jun 25, 2006 2:24 am
- Location: Waukegan, Illinois USA
Question about USN49, US Land-Based Fighters
When I saw av8rmongo's posting, I had to go back and review my wish lists. For some time, I have had the SB2C Helldiver on my wish list when it has been available all along in USN44. I will correct this error asap.
In the process, I was looking at the description for USN49, US Land-Based Fighters. One of the items on this list is "P-40 Mustang." Obviously, this should be either "P-40 *hawk" or "P-51 Mustang." My recollection is that it was the P-40, but I am away from home on business this week and can't check my collection.
Can anyone confirm the correct identity of the "P-40 Mustang" in USN49?
Don S.
In the process, I was looking at the description for USN49, US Land-Based Fighters. One of the items on this list is "P-40 Mustang." Obviously, this should be either "P-40 *hawk" or "P-51 Mustang." My recollection is that it was the P-40, but I am away from home on business this week and can't check my collection.
Can anyone confirm the correct identity of the "P-40 Mustang" in USN49?
Don S.
-
cbovill
- E5
- Posts: 439
- Joined: Mon Dec 13, 2004 5:20 am
- Location: Las Vegas, NV
CA-68 - thanks for the compliments, glad you liked her. My buddy wrote me back after looking at her and is anxiously looking forward to picking her up. As for the ship labels, its just an excel file, so PM me with your e-mail address and I'll send you a copy.
Paul - with GHQ, enough is never enough! Trust me, I'll find a good use for every last one of those planes.
Don - The fighter in question is actually the P-40 Warhawk.
Paul - with GHQ, enough is never enough! Trust me, I'll find a good use for every last one of those planes.
Don - The fighter in question is actually the P-40 Warhawk.