Micronaut Only Thread

[av8rmongo]

Chris,

Fantastic job on those ships! I really like what you did with the aircraft as well. Some day when I'm done moving every two or three years I want to mount my aircraft like that too. Keep the pictures coming.

Paul

[tstockton]

Chris,

First off -- that's some absolutely OUTSTANDING work! And thank you so very much for sharing them with us!!

And now, a question... Don't recall where I read it -- probably here on the GHQ forum, but I'm not sure -- have you ever tried decaling your carrier decks? And I'm not referring to the striping and the numbers, but the entire flight deck. Wherever it was that I read it, the author used some kind of computer paint program to draw out his deck in a larger scale. After he was satisfied with the look, he used the program to shrink the deck down to its proper size, and then printed it out on the decal paper. After applying the "proper" clear sealer, he cut the decal out and applied it to the flight deck of his carrier...

Sure do wish I remembered where I read that -- but it seemed like a pretty good way to get fine markings, skid marks from landings, etc.

Again -- great work!!

Regards,
Tom Stockton

[Mickel]

Chris, you're not the only one out there painting. When the light gets a little better I'll snap some photos of my new River Plate ships. Not to your standard, but at least you won't be quite so alone! Doing a few French ships at the moment. But the threat of having to move country has put a dampener on proceedings.

I gamed out River Plate at the local club the week before the anniversary. Exeter blew up to a first turn hit. The two lights closed to pepper Graf Spee. They landed a lot of hits and slowly beat her down. However the look of fear in the players eyes every time Graf Spee rolled for a hit on their ships was great. They knew full well what might happen if one collected them. I haven't quite got through to them that the whole point is to survive, not storm in at all costs (although the lights really had to to achieve anything). But the players and spectators enjoyed themselves, which is what counts in that environment.

[cbovill]

You know Tom, that decal method you speak of sure would come in handy for doing up the Japanese carriers, those things look brutal with all those markings on the flightdeck. I may have to experiment with that when I get to the IJN. In the meantime I'm hoping somebody just starts producing professional grade decal sets for these carriers.

Can't wait to see those ships Mickel! ...and how about an AAR of the battle?

Chris

[Donald M. Scheef]

The idea of decals for entire aircraft carrier flight decks has come up before. Currently it sits at seven votes in the Consolidated Micronauts Wish list.

One drawback from my point of view is that to get the decals to lie flat, it will be necessary to sand flat the flight deck. Then you need to reproduce the raised detail of arrestor gear, catapults, crash barriers, etc.

Don S.

[kiasutha]

Don S.
Look into some of the decal softening/setting solutions made mainly for the model railroad market. They will allow decals to conform to some pretty gnarly raised detail.
Might do the job here too...
JimR.

[Donald M. Scheef]

UKN43 (DD V & W classes) has just appeared on the "New Items" list, along with GWR07 (armored cruiser Rurik) and several land-lubberly models. There are no details (other than "WW I survivors! Three destroyers per pack.") or photograph yet, so we can't tell which version (versions?) is in the pack. I just placed my order, so this should be answered within the next week or so.

The V & W classes were state of the art destroyers when introduced during the Great War (head & shoulders above the contemporary US "four-stacker" or "flush deck" design). By adapting oil firing and more efficient boilers, the British reduced the number of stacks to two, allowing the bridge to be moved further back from the bow. This, in turn, allowed fitting a superimposed gun forward. All the torpedo tubes were centerline mounted, providing greater efficiency (although still only two twin tubes in the V class). Aft, two more guns (#3 superfiring over #4) provided better coverage compared to the previous practice of mounting a gun between the stacks. Althoush these features had appeared individually in earlier designs, the V&Ws were the first to combine them. This became the standard format for destroyers for the next 20 years.

There were numerous minor variations within this relatively large group of ships: About a dozen ships were built so that they could be fitted for minelaying duties. Supposedly, by landing the torpedo tubes and #4 gun and installing rails, they could be switched to the minelayer configuration within 24 hours. These ships could be recognized by the mine chutes built into the stern. The W class began with triple tubes rather than twin (this is irrelevant for WWII - the V class had been fitted with triple tubes by 1938). The "Repeat V&W" or "Modified W" class had 4.7-inch guns rather than the 4-inch guns of the earlier groups. The appearance of the 4.7-inch mount is not noticably different from that of the 4-inch in 1/2400 scale. Six ships built by Thornycroft had their characteristic flat-sided funnels rather than the more common round funnels and had slightly greater beam than the Admiralty design ships. These differences should be moderately noticable in 1/2400 scale. Finally, the final group of the Modified W class changed the arrangement of the boiler rooms, placing the larger funnel ahead of the smaller funnel - the reverse of the order for the other classes. This is clearly noticable in any scale.

All the above describes the V&Ws as they were built. However, the UKN series is for the Second World War. By 1938, the British recognized that the V&Ws were reaching the end of their life as first-line destroyers and began a program of modifying them for alternate duties. Only a small number of V&Ws were not significantly modified (essentially those transferred to Australia and/or sunk early in the war).

The simplest modification was the "short-range" escort. The aft bank of torpedo tubes was replaced by an anti-aircraft gun. #4 gun was replaced with additional depth charges. In some cases, a twin 6-pounder mount replaced #1 gun. Light anti-aircraft, radar, and radio-direction finding were added as weight allowed. 11 were converted - mostly the second group of the Modified W class. (The 4.7-inch guns were more valued for surface gunfire, so so they were not given WAIR conversions; the boiler room arrangement made the "long-range" conversion impractical.)

The "long-range" escort was a more sizable modification. The smaller forward boiler room (and its associated stack) was replaced with additional fuel storage (lower half) and crew space (upper half). This provided the range for trans-Atlantic escort duties. In almost all cases, #1 gun was replaced with an ahead-throwing anti-submarine weapon (hedgehog). Both banks of torpedo tubes and #4 gun were landed and replaced with additional depth charge racks and throwers. Radar and radio-direction finding were fitted as they became available. Only light anti-aircraft was fitted, as there was reduced need in the mid-Atlantic. 22 were converted.

The most significant modification was the "fast escort," "anti-aircraft escort," or "WAIR" conversion. All the existing guns and torpedo tubes were removed and the bridge remodeled. The main armament became two twin 4-inch antiaircraft guns. Two to eight single light antiaircraft guns were also mounted, along with some depth charges. Radar was fitted as soon as it became available. Actually, this was the first of the conversions begun, starting before the war. More of the V&Ws would have received the WAIR conversion if the lack of dock space and the demand for more anti-submarine types had not arisen with the start of the war. 15 were converted.

What I really want is the three escort versions. The unaltered version would be better served by models in the GWB series, representing the ships as they were originally built. I will report on what is in UKN43 as soon as I can.

Don S.

[Donald M. Scheef]

A photograph of UKN43 has just appeared in the catalog listing. This shows a ship with all four main gun mounts, two funnels (smaller forward), a 12-pounder AA gun aft of the second funnel, and two sets of triple torpedo tubes. As such, it is the least usable verson of these ships.

The V class was completed with twin torpedo tubes, not triple. Although they later had the twin tubes replaced with triple tubes, this was after the end of the Great War. Therefore, the model is not a good representation of a Great War V class.

The W class was completed with triple tubes. However, most of this class were completed late in the Great War and did not se significant combat in this war.

If simulating a 1920s or 1930s scenario, UKN43 can be used to represent a total of 57 ships (5 1916-1917 Programme Flotilla Leaders, 22 V class destroyers [25 were completed, but 3 sunk before replacing twin TT with triple], 21 W class destroyers, and 9 Repeat W class [first group]). Note that by 1930, the 12-pounder originally mounted aft of the second funnel had been replaced by 2 or 4 single 2-pounder AA guns.

For WWII service, conversion of UKN43 to the fast escort (WAIR) version is essentially impossible as only the hull and engines remained unchanged.

Conversion of UKN43 to the long-range escort is relatively difficult. Remove the forward funnel. Replace #1 gun mount with hedgehog. Replace #4 gun with two sets of depth charge racks. Replace the 12-pdr and both banks of TT with four or six sets of depth charge throwers. Add light AA guns, radar and RDF mounts.

Conversion of UKN43 to the short-range escort is easier. Remove the aft TT bank and the #4 gun. Add two depth charge throwers, some light AA (single 2-pdr or 20mm) and RDF antennas. However, most of the short-range escorts were from the second group of Modified W class, which had the large funnel forward. UKN43 does not represent these ships.

Only ten ships remained in an "unaltered" state. Even most of the "unaltered" ships had the aft TT bank replaced with a 12-pdr AA gun and light AA added. Four of these had been transferred to tha Australian Navy. Of the remainder, only one survived past June, 1941.

I have already ordered several packs of UKN43 and will be ordering more in the future (albeit at a relaitively low priority). What I really want are the modified forms for WWII service (Wair, long-range, and short-range escorts). Later, I would like to have a V class (with twin TT) in the GWB series.

Don S.

[cbovill]

I'm very happy to see the long anticipated arrival of the V&W class destroyers, after all many of us lobbied hard for these to get released. The picture and description do leave me a bit worried that it does not include any of the three conversions that were carried out leading up to and during WWII. A year ago I built a spreadsheet dedicated to these ships to track versions and changes. What I come up with after filtering down to the version pictured and accounting for losses up to WWII, shows the following ships available for WWII in this general configuration:

HMAS Vampire (V class flotilla leader)
HMAS Vendetta (V class)
HMS Venetia (V class)
HMS Vortigern (V class)
HMS Wakeful (W class)
HMS ** CENSORED ** (W class)
HMAS Voyager (W class)
HMS Whirlwind (W class)
HMAS Waterhen (W class)
HMS Wren (W class modified)
HMS Wild Swan (W class modified)

Now the picture of the model clearly shows a 3" Mk I AA gun abaft the second funnel. All of the above were so equipped except for Vampire and Wild Swan, they had twin 40mm AA mounts in that position.

Also, Wren and Wild Swan were equipped with the 4.7"/45 BL Mk I gun, while the others had the 4"/45 QF Mk V gun, probably not noticable at this scale. These two also had one bank of TT removed and replaced with 1 x 12 pdr HA AA gun.

Donald - as soon as you get yours, would love to hear from you on what this pack actually includes.

On a good note, HMAS Vampire served with Force Z, the famous death ride of HMS Prince of Wales and HMS Repulse. With the release of this ship plus the E class destroyers last year, the only ship missing from Force Z now is HMS Tenedos, an S class destroyer, even older than Vampire, and for wargaming purposes, I would just use one of the V's for that as I don't expect we'll be seeing the S class in either the WWi or WWII line-ups anytime soon.

Anyone take a look at the Rurik? She is a beauty! I have no interest in the Imperial Russian Navy during WWI but man she is a sweet looking ship.

Chris

[cbovill]

Sorry - HMS Censored is actually HMS W e s s e x.

[Donald M. Scheef]

I agree with almost everything you write, cbovill. One comment I would make is that HMS White Swan was a second group Modified W. Therefore, she had the position of the larger and smaller funnel reversed from that illustrated in the photo of UKN43.

Just to clarify one item: the "40 mm" you mention for Vampire and Wild Swan was the 2-pdr "pom-pom" rather than the later and better Bofors gun. Both had a bore of 40mm, but the term "40mm" was almost never used to describe the 2-pdr.

Don S.

[ww2navyguy]

Most of the minis battles I've fought over the years involved the Germans or the Japanese. I cannot ignore all the small skirmishes fought in the Mediterranean. They are especially useful with fewer players.

To that end I have some Italian cruisers and destroyers.
I would like to paint up the CL Raimondo Montecuccoli or Muzio Attendolo in camouflage.
I've seen some line drawings of DDs posted in the past. Does anyone have some of either cruiser.

E.springer,

I don't have any line drawings that I can share of these Italian light cruisers at this time, but here are a few links to some nicely painted models from ModelWarshipGallery.com:

This first link is of RM Muzio Attendolo in early 1941-1942 camo and the last three photos are of sister ship Raimondo Montecuccoli in 1942-1943 dazzle pattern. Bothe ships have false bow waves too.

Here is the link:

http://www.modelshipgallery.com/gallery ... index.html

Here is another link for Raimondo Montecuccoli:

http://www.modelshipgallery.com/gallery ... index.html

Here is another nice paint job for Raimondo Montecuccoli in Spring 1942 camo:

http://www.modelshipgallery.com/gallery ... index.html

I hope this helps.

Scott

[Donald M. Scheef]

I have just received my first order of UKN43 (DD V & W class). Each pack contains three identical models of an unmodified-type ship. As such, these are good representations of about 60 ships in the inter-war period and about ten ships in the early WWII period.

The V class originally had twin torpedo tubes. It will be difficult (but not impossible) to cut off the center tube from each set. For WWI scenarios, the models will do fine just ingnoring the third tube in each set.

The W class completed with triple TT (as in the model) but were all completed post-Armistice.

I would really like to see GHQ do the converted forms of these ships for WW II serivice.

Don S.

[ww2navyguy]

WW2 navy guy

Thanks for the links. The pics posted there will give me enough to work with.
I've been to the model warship gallery several times, but hadn't come across
those pictures before.
Perhaps, I misspelled them in the search box. Five years of Latin, does not
always transliterate into Italian.


Thank you very much.

E.springer,

You're very welcome. I'm so glad the photos were able to help you. Please post again if you are looking for other snap shots that I might know about.

Scott