British 6 Lbr AT Gun

pmskaar · Post by **pmskaar** » Sat Jan 17, 2009 8:15 pm

I am currently working on doing my British forces for 1942 North Africa. I have some of GHQ's British 6 Lbrs and was wondering if the model GHQ makes is the correct one for North Africa. I believe the one that is currently offered would be appropriate for NW Europe with the muzzle brake on it. Pictures I see of 6 Lbrs in North Africa show no muzzle brake attached. Are there any other differences that I should be aware of? I am no expert here and want to know if they were basically the same or if they were different in any significant way. Thanks.

Pete - Binpicker, Out!

jb · Post by jb » Sat Jan 17, 2009 11:57 pm

pmskaar wrote:I am currently working on doing my British forces for 1942 North Africa. I have some of GHQ's British 6 Lbrs and was wondering if the model GHQ makes is the correct one for North Africa. I believe the one that is currently offered would be appropriate for NW Europe with the muzzle brake on it. Pictures I see of 6 Lbrs in North Africa show no muzzle brake attached. Are there any other differences that I should be aware of? I am no expert here and want to know if they were basically the same or if they were different in any significant way. Thanks.

Pete - Binpicker, Out!

What I have following is off the wiki site referring to the 6 pdr At gun;
Another site reffering to the 6 pdr states that the different length barrels of course gave different velocities withe same ammunition. Taking the following table I would say the Mk1(limited production) & Mk2 first production
did not have the baffle. I can't find the dates for these models, but I will look further. If the earlier version is desired cut off (sharp exacto) the baffle and file the end flat, if using the GHQ version,regardless of historical facts

Mk 1: limited production version with L/50 barrel.
Mk 2: first mass production version. Shortened L/43 barrel was adopted due to the shortage of suitable manufacturing equipment.
Mk 3: tank version of Mk 2.
Mk 4: L/50 barrel, single baffle muzzle brake.
Mk 5: tank version of Mk 4 .
Molins Class M gun: 6 pounder gun fitted with automatic loader built by the Molins company, a manufacturer of cigarette vending machines. It was mounted on the Royal Navy Motor Torpedo Boats, a limited number of Royal Navy Escort Destroyers ("V and W" class vessels in a twin mounting at "A" gun position) and in the RAF Mosquito planes, which were then referred to as the "Tsetse".
57mm Gun M1: U.S. built version; although based on Mk II, it had the "original" L/50 barrel.

pmskaar · Post by **pmskaar** » Tue Jan 20, 2009 6:08 am

Hi JB

Thanks very much for the info on the 6 Lbr. I suppose the next question would be as follows - How much shorter is the barrel on the Mk II than the Mk IV or Mk I for that matter? I am interested in knowing how much (in millimeters) at 1/285th scale I would need to trim the barrel that is supplied with the kit to bring it to the correct length for a Mk II.
From what few pictures I can see, it is really hard to tell due to the angle of the picture, etc. Besides the lack of a muzzle brake, was there a barrel band around the muzzle or not? I checked the wikepedia article and pictures of each type are not real abundant here. Any furthur info would be appreciated. Thanks.

Pete - Binpicker, Out!

jb · Post by jb » Tue Jan 20, 2009 9:56 am

Pete,
First off it appears that GHQ UK-45 is the later version L50 with single baffle.
The the difference of L50 to L43 would be 7 times the caliber or 359mm (57mmX7=359), that would be just over 14" REAL or 1mm(APROX) in GHQ Micro scale.. I have the 6 pdr gun in front of me, the baffle on the end measures 1mm. I would say if you want theMk2-L43, slice the baffle off. Also to note if a ring is on the end of the L43 Mk2(I don't know either) then you may slice on the baffle itself leaving a ring larger than the gun tube it is on replicating the ring. It seems that with minute work you are covered to model any Mk of the 6pdr.

Another route to consider if the later L50 w/o baffle is desired, would be to use the British 6pdr Gun carriage (UK-45) and the US 57mm AT gun (US-49) on top of this. These guns after all were almost identical just different carriages.

Mk 1 · Post by **Mk 1** » Tue Jan 20, 2009 10:07 am

jb wrote:Pete,
Another route to consider if the later L50 w/o baffle, would be to use the British 6pdr Gun carriage (UK-45) and the US 57mm AT gun (US-49) on top of this. These guns after all were almost identical.

OK JB, I'll nibble on this one...

What were the differences between the US 57mm gun M1 and the British 6pdr?

I mean visual recognition differences, not the metric vs. inches and screw threadings stuff. I can't think of a single visual difference on the carriages -- after the muzzle brake, I don't know of anything else to look for. Not saying they aren't there, just that I don't know 'em...

jb · Post by jb » Tue Jan 20, 2009 10:12 am

Mk 1 wrote:
jb wrote:Pete,
Another route to consider if the later L50 w/o baffle, would be to use the British 6pdr Gun carriage (UK-45) and the US 57mm AT gun (US-49) on top of this. These guns after all were almost identical.
OK JB, I'll nibble on this one...

What were the differences between the US 57mm gun M1 and the British 6pdr?

I mean visual recognition differences, not the metric vs. inches and screw threadings stuff. I can't think of a single visual difference on the carriages -- after the muzzle brake, I don't know of anything else to look for. Not saying they aren't there, just that I don't know 'em...

The tow mounting on the trails are different. The tow eyelet for the British gun are portside trail & of course opposite for the US gun. Maybe has something to do with which side of the street you drive on

There is also an airborne carriage designed by the Brits that the US airborne also adopted in 1944. I can't get any more than that on it though...

jb · Post by jb » Tue Jan 20, 2009 10:54 am

Just found this picture of a 6pdr. No ring

pmskaar · Post by **pmskaar** » Tue Jan 20, 2009 7:11 pm

Hey JB, thanks very much for the additional info and pictures. On this subject, I did some additional checking last night. I used my British Army Handbook as well as looking at some more pictures on wikipedia.
I confirm what JB says in that there does not seem to be any sort of ring around the muzzle on the Mark II. In addition, the wheels on the carriage appear different than the model that GHQ does in that they are larger and much more closely resemble the U.S. 57mm carriage in appearance. I will probably end up converting some by using the U.S. carriage with a "sawed off" British gun to make mine. I did note that the tow hook is on the opposite side for the 2 different carriages but will have to make do - I guess.
That is unless GHQ decides to do the Mk II Six Lbr in conjunction with say a 6 Lbr Portee in which case they could do the MK II model. I guess in that case I would be just another spoiled 6 Lbr seeker!

I very much appreciate your input JB and yours too Mk I (even though I'm looking for the Mk II)

Thanks again.

Pete - Binpicker, Out!

Hugewally · Post by **Hugewally** » Thu Jan 22, 2009 4:19 am

From the ARCO WWII Fact Files book...

http://img101.imageshack.us/img101/5944 ... 021dj8.jpg

http://img101.imageshack.us/img101/5054 ... 022li1.jpg

http://img171.imageshack.us/img171/2576 ... 023cd7.jpg

British 6 Lbr AT Gun

British 6 Lbr AT Gun

Re: British 6 Lbr AT Gun

6 Lbr AT Gun

6 Lbr AT Gun