Soviet MR/tank regiments and their components

[CA-68]

All the TO&Es i can find for the Soviets in the 70s/early 80s are pretty consistent, which is nice...but, my question is, how were the units in them allocated?

A MR division has 3 MR regiments and 1 tank regiment, along with artillery, AA, recon, engineers, and support helicopters. OK so far.

Now, at the regiment level, there are 3 BNs of MR troops, 1 BN of tanks, recon and engineer companies, AA and artillery batallions, and an antitank BN. Still ok...

Now, where it gets confusing. Do the MR troops and the tanks form coherent battalions, of say 3 MR companies and 1 tank company, or do the tank BNs have their own independent command from the MR BNs? Are the antitank and AA troops a regimental asset, or are they also parceled down to the individual BNs?

Is a division 4 regiments, of 3 MR and 1 of tanks, or is it 3, each with MR and tanks? Looks like the support units (Artillery, AA, etc) are all in "threes"....?

Basically, at the regiment level, who answers to who? And also, at the BN level, who answers to who? This was almost certainly subject to change, but, what was the norm?

Trying to put together a regiment of a soviet tank division, one of a east german tank division, and maybe a rgt of BTR MR troops, but also want to know who, what, and how many would be in a BN of the same, as BN level games are easier (and faster!) than bigger ones.

[tbeard1999]

...Basically, at the regiment level, who answers to who? And also, at the BN level, who answers to who? This was almost certainly subject to change, but, what was the norm?

Trying to put together a regiment of a soviet tank division, one of a east german tank division, and maybe a rgt of BTR MR troops, but also want to know who, what, and how many would be in a BN of the same, as BN level games are easier (and faster!) than bigger ones.

All battalions in a regiment had the appropriate command and control assets, so a typical Soviet regiment could have 4 commands. But diagrams of Soviet attack doctrine (usually drawn from original Soviet sources) always seem to show mixed, reinforced battalions. For instance, consider one diagram I have of a two echelon MR battalion attack. The battalion has 3 MR companies and 1 tank company, so clearly the regimental tank battalion has been divided amongst the MR battalions.In addition, the tank company is subdivided amongst the MR companies, 1 tank platoon for each. This structure is repeated in diagrams showing a single echelon attack and showing a 2 echelon attack from march (though that particular diagram has a typo). A diagram showing a MR regiment attack formation shows 3 MR battalions, each with a tank company attached. (One has the tank company subdivided among the MR companies; the other has the tank company "pure").

Given that Soviet battalion command and control assets are extremely sparse (i.e., barely comparable to a US company), little would be lost in breaking up the "minority" battalion.

So, I'd suggest that the weight of evidence suggests that a Soviet MR regiment would have 3 reinforced MR battalions, each with 3 MR companies and 1 tank company. Each reinforced MR battalion would have eaither (a) 3 reinforced MR companies, each of 3 MR platoons and 1 tank platoon; or (b) 3 MR companies and 1 tank company.

A tank regiment would be the same, with proportions reversed.

That's how my Soviets are organized for my rules, A Fistful of TOWs 2/3. (I.e., a regiment has 3 reinforced battalions).

[CA-68]

OK, thanks very much! Thats kind of what i thought, but wasnt sure.

Thanks again!

[CA-68]

OMG cool! Thanks for linking that!

Exactly what I needed!!

[voltigeur]

Based on the year you want and if you are doing a BMP or BTR equiped unit the organizations are very different. I built a BMP MRB just because it was cheaper. (Sorry GHQ)

The 70's to 85 saw alot of changes for both NATO and the Soviets. If you need help shoot me a line or post here. It will take a couple of days for me to respond but I have 3 FM's that have the information and several other Infantry school work books that show changes year to year. If you are doing 5:1 A BTR unit is do able and fun.

I turned my personal Lap Top in for clean up so If I don't answer right away don't worry.

[chrisswim]

According to FM 100-2-3: The Soviet Army: June 1991...
the Motorized Rifle Rgmt (BMP) is organized as follows:
Regimental HQ
3 MR Battalions [126 BMPs total]
1 Tk Battalion [40 tanks total]
1SP Howitzer Battalion
Air Defense Missil and Artillery Battery
Antitank Missle Battery
Reconnaissance Company
Engineer Company
Signal Company
Chemical Protection Platoon
Materiel Support company
Maintenance company
Tegimental Medical Point

Motorized rifle Regiment (BTR)
Rgmt HQ
3 MR Battalions [141 BTR total]
1 TK Battalion [40 tanks]
1 Howitzer Battalion
AD Missile & Artillery Battery
AT Missile Battery
Reconnaissance Company
Engineer company
Signal Co
Chemical Protection Platoon
Material Support co
Maintenance Co
Rgmt Medical Point

*In the late 1980s, forces in Eastern Europe began to standardize tank battalions at 31 tanks.

But the force you want is the Independen Tank Battalion of a MRD (Motor Rifle Division), it has 51 tanks. 5 companies of 10 tanks each plus the commander.

[tbeard1999]

If you can find a copy of GDW's TacForce, check out book 3. It has incredibly detailed and comprehensive order of battle information for the Soviets, US Army and US Marine Corps during the 1970s.

The Soviet organizations are especially interesting, since the book generally has an "old organization" and a "new organization" The changes are fairly minimal (and in 5:1 games, often invisible), but it's as close to a definitive guide for the 1970s as I've found (still looking, though).

For late 1970s organizations, David Isby's "Weapons & Tactics of the Soviet Army" (1981 printing) is a useful supplement to TacForce.

Of course, in the 1980s, you have an embarassment of riches. In drafting the Soviet army lists for A Fistful of TOWs 3, I consider the 1984 and 1991 printings of FM 100-2-3 to be definitive. I haven't looked at later printings of Isby's book, but they might well be updated.

For 5:1 games, the GDW wargame Combined Arms has a very detailed NATO-Warsae Pact section. Past issues of Command Post Quarterly have had some good 5:1 organizations for other theaters. FFT2 has a pretty extensive set of 5:1 army lists, centering on 1980s NATO/WP and the 67 and 73 Arab Israeli Wars.

[chrisswim]

If you are looking for more specific info from: The Soviet Army: FM 100-2-3, let me know. I will be glad to try to help with the info.

[CA-68]

Is that a book, and can copies be found for sale anywhere?

[chrisswim]

It is a soft cover book, you might find copy in used book store. Chances are slimIn 20 years I have seen one copy in a book store. If you have a friend that used to be in the military, they may be able to hook you up. If closing an army base, ask librarian if they have a copy that is surplus.

[retired_to_ft_living_room]

I was able to find a pdf copy of The Soviet Army: FM 100-2-3 online at this link:
http://www.cgsc.edu/carl/docrepository/FM100_2_3.pdf
It is 456 pages and it is a 1991 edition. Also there is a copy of FM 100-2-2, The Soviet Army: Specialized Warfare and Rear Area Support. Hope this helps.

[CA-68]

Thanks much for the link! That should keep me in reading materials for a while.

OMG this has information on the equipment and EVERYTHING! squeee!

Anyone know if places like kinkos or office max can print out documents like this if i save em on a jump drive? I want a hard copy of this, but its 467 pages!

[tbeard1999]

Thanks much for the link! That should keep me in reading materials for a while.

OMG this has information on the equipment and EVERYTHING! squeee!

Anyone know if places like kinkos or office max can print out documents like this if i save em on a jump drive? I want a hard copy of this, but its 467 pages!

Yes, they can. If they ask about copyright status, tell them that this is a US Government publication and therefore *not* copyrighted.

Per 17 USC § 105.59 -- "Copyright protection … is not available for any work of the United States Government..."

[chrisswim]

Oh well, the value of my book decline.....
Just inside of the cover on page
"DISTRIBUTION RESTRICTIONS: Approved for public release: distribution is unlimited."