1/2400 bits

[dragon6]

I'm doing some scratch building and a few 'bits' would add some nice detail.

I find making small AA mounts very hard so what does GHQ have available as separate bits?

I understand the KGV (WW2) model has the 8 barreled pom pom (how many on a sprue?)
Does any British model have the 4 barreled pom pom?
Are there any single or twin 40mm mounts?
How about separate 20mm or 25mm (Japanese) mounts?
German quad 37mm, quad 20mm, or 105mm AA mounts?
I assume all of the above (except the 105mm) will be in gun tubs.

I know about the quad 40mm bofors mount but not any other small AA mounts

[Donald M. Scheef]

I have modified my response based on better information from Leopold. Please see subsequent posting.
Don S.

[Leopold]

Spare AA mounts are rare. As Donald pointed out quad 40mm are common enough, but then it gets tough. The BC Hood comes with some extra 8x 2pndr mounts. CL Arethusa, LSD, CB Alaska have some individual 20 MM AA. The LSD has twin 40mm Bofors as well. The Arizona and Pennsylvania come with some quad 1.1" AA mounts. Thats about it for light AA.

[dragon6]

Spare AA mounts are rare. As Donald pointed out quad 40mm are common enough, but then it gets tough. The BC Hood comes with some extra 8x 2pndr mounts. CL Arethusa, LSD, CB Alaska have some individual 20 MM AA. The LSD has twin 40mm Bofors as well. The Arizona and Pennsylvania come with some quad 1.1" AA mounts. Thats about it for light AA.

Oh please tell me more about the LSD. The twin bofors and individual 20mm sound just the ticket. How many to a sprue? I assume both are in gun tubs? Are the Arethusa or Alaska 20mm different? Numbers, or twins?

I had thought KGV had separate 8 barreled pom pom from a comment on ebay, but if Hood has them excellent

[Donald M. Scheef]

Thanks to Leopold who pointed out several GHQ kits that I had missed in my initial search for light AA mounts.

Unfortunately for those of us who want "bits" for our 1/2400 scale ships, few light anti-aircraft mounts available as separate items from GHQ.

GHQ produces a sprue with eight quad 40mm Bofors (and no other items). This is included in USN57 (BB-44 California '44), USN58 (BB-58 West Virginia '44), USN59 (BB-43 Tennessee '43), USN65 (BB-67 Montana), USN 67 (CB1 Alaska) and USN 76 (BB-36 Nevada '44). USN 67 also includes a sprue with five (single 20 mm?) along with the cranes.

USN56 (LSD) has one sprue with three quad 40mm Bofors plus three twin 40mm Bofors and a second sprue with seven single 20mm.

USN19 (BB-38 Pennsylvania '42) and USN61 (BB-39 Arizona) each has a sprue with three quad 1.1" mounts along with cranes.

GHQ's KGV (UNK10) has four of the 8-barrel pom-pom mounts, but these are molded into the hull and superstructure pieces.

UKN29 (HMS Hood) has two sprues, each with three twin 15" mounts and two octuple 2 pdr mounts.

UKN4 (HMS Arethusa) provides three quad 2 pdr mounts on the same sprue as the stacks.

RMN18 (CV Aquila) has several sprues with light AA mounts. The following identification is guesswork because there is not specific list and what is provided doesn't match what my references describe: two sprues, each with five single 90mm; two sprues, each with three single 65mm and three multiple 20mm.

I was unable to find any Micronauts with Japanese triple, twin, or single 25mm mounts or German 20mm, 37mm, or 105mm mounts.

Don S.

[dragon6]

Thanks to Leopold who pointed out several GHQ kits that I had missed in my initial search for light AA mounts.

Unfortunately for those of us who want "bits" for our 1/2400 scale ships, few light anti-aircraft mounts available as separate items from GHQ.

GHQ produces a sprue with eight quad 40mm Bofors (and no other items). This is included in USN57 (BB-44 California '44), USN58 (BB-58 West Virginia '44), USN59 (BB-43 Tennessee '43), USN65 (BB-67 Montana), USN 67 (CB1 Alaska) and USN 76 (BB-36 Nevada '44). USN 67 also includes a sprue with five (single 20 mm?) along with the cranes.

USN56 (LSD) has one sprue with three quad 40mm Bofors plus three twin 40mm Bofors and a second sprue with seven single 20mm.

USN19 (BB-38 Pennsylvania '42) and USN61 (BB-39 Arizona) each has a sprue with three quad 1.1" mounts along with cranes.

GHQ's KGV (UNK10) has four of the 8-barrel pom-pom mounts, but these are molded into the hull and superstructure pieces.

UKN29 (HMS Hood) has two sprues, each with three twin 15" mounts and two octuple 2 pdr mounts.

UKN4 (HMS Arethusa) provides three quad 2 pdr mounts on the same sprue as the stacks.

RMN18 (CV Aquila) has several sprues with light AA mounts. The following identification is guesswork because there is not specific list and what is provided doesn't match what my references describe: two sprues, each with five single 90mm; two sprues, each with three single 65mm and three multiple 20mm.

I was unable to find any Micronauts with Japanese triple, twin, or single 25mm mounts or German 20mm, 37mm, or 105mm mounts.

Don S.

Thanks Don. Aquila's multiple 20mm are twins? And Arethusa has quad pom poms?

Fantastic.

[Donald M. Scheef]

re: "Aquila's multiple 20mm are twins?" My identification of the mounts on Aquila is mostly guesswork. The items I identified as "multiple 20mm" are the smallest of the gun mounts in this model and too small to clearly identify (at least with my eyesight). My copy of Conway's describes two different armament plans (initial with 90 mm + 37 mm and revised with 65 mm and 20 mm), neither of which matches exactly what GHQ has provided. One of the mounts described in Conway's is a multiple 20 mm mount. I recall reading in Warship that the Italians were working on a six-barrel 20 mm mount. This sounds about right for what is in the model - slightly larger than the flakfierling molded into many German warship models.

re: "And Arethusa has quad pom poms?" Leopold says that these are single 20 mm mounts, but GHQ's instructions places these at the same location as the quad 2 pdrs shown in Conway's. They look a lot larger than a 20 mm single mount to me and about the correct size and shape for a quad 2 pdr. Again, this is a bit of guesswork on my part, but I would not hesitate to use them for quad 2 pdrs.

Don S.

[dragon6]

Thanks for your help with this Don, and you too Leopold!

Now to figure out what I need...

[TAMMY]

... Italians were working on a six-barrel 20 mm mount. This sounds about right for what is in the model - slightly larger than the flakfierling molded into many German warship models.

This is right except that the six-barrel complex was much larger than the Gernan Flakvierling. I would say about the double in length and slightly wider. Thi was due not so much to the barrels (3 pairs one above the other) but for the aiming system which involved three men seated on a big extension on the back of the complex.

According to plan the Aquila should have 22 of these mopunts. I cannto check the Aquila model as I don't have it (I don't buy models of ships not in service). Possibly they could be flakvierling as they were temporarily mounted on Aquila waiting for the new Breda six-barrel mounts.[/quote]

[dragon6]

Could they possibly be breda twin or single 37mm mounts?

[TAMMY]

No, even if I cannot check, I think they are 20mm. After all in 1/2400 the word "larger" is a bit relative and can be checked only putting two pieces one beside the other.

There is amother point for Aquila. According to the description given by Don S. the number og guns do not match. 10 single guns 90mm is OK (Actually they were 8 x 135mm) but 6 x 65mm and 6x 20mm are too few. They should be 12 and 22 respectively.

Possibly the missing ones are moulded on the model and not separate items

[Donald M. Scheef]

Yes, I counted only the separately-molded gun mounts. Both the intial and the later version included eight single 135 mm guns. These are separate from what I identify as 90 mm mounts. I'm fairly confident about the 90 mm mounts because GHQ almost always provides a few "spares" for the small pieces (gun mounts, cranes, catapults, funnels, and even entire superstructure in larger ships). The reason that I said that GHQ's model does not match my references (mostly Conway'), is that Conway describes two different armament schemes. The initial had 90 mm and 37 mm guns (no 65 mm or 20 mmm). The later had 65 mm and 20 mm (no 90 mm or 37 mm). GHQ's model has three different mounts for light-medium anti-aircraft guns. The two larger clearly are single mounts - almost certainly 90 mm and 65 mm (which should not be together). The smallest could be either 37 mm (single or multiple) or 20 mm (almost certainly multiple).

btw, "larger" is always relative, not just in 1/2400 scale.

I did perform a side-by-side comparison of the (suspected) multiple 20 mm mounts from Aquila with the quad 20 mm molded on GHQ's Tirpitz (and also with the separately-molded quad 40 mm from a US battleship). The gun mount is larger than the quad 20 mm but smaller than the quad 40 mm. I chose to identify them as multiple 20 mm.

Having taken this position, I would point out that if you want to call these twin or single (or even quadruple) 37 mm mounts, go ahead. Unless/until the designer of the mold chimes in, there is no way to be certain.

Don S.

[TAMMY]

The "original" armament quoted by Conway is a bit puzzling because I have found similar data for the project of a previous carrier not the Aquila.

In any case it was based on:
8 x 152 mm (4x2 turrets - according to other sources 6 pieces in 2x3 turrets. The Italian navy had no single mounts for the 152/55)
12 90mm AA in the same mounts as on the Littorio class. (It was the only existing installation for the 90mm guns)
104 37mm AA (I have found only generic reference to light AA. In any case the Italian Navy had no quad 37mm and 52 twin systems seems a bit too much). One source gives 4 40mmx6 mounts but I find no trace of such a weapon.

The "final "armament" was on paper only as the guns were all under development and no one of them entered actual service except a few single 135mm mounted in coast defence.

[Donald M. Scheef]

The largest gun on GHQ's model of Aquila (which I took to be 135mm) are in single mounts (two in each of four sponsons mounted on the corners of the ship). This matches Conway's description of Aquila's armament. The real RM may not have had a single mount for the 135 mm, but since almost everything else on the Aquila is new, why not hypothesize a new gun mount. I also recall reading about a new design destroyer (Comandante Baroni class), that was to have single 135 mm mounts with higher elevation than the twin mounts in the Capitani Romani class.

The single mounts that I took to be 90 mm definitely look like those molded into the superstructure of Littorio (generally round with the front face angled back). This is one of the reasons that I am reasonably confident of this identification.

The single mounts that I took to be 65 mm look similar in shape to the 90 mm mounts, but slightly smaller. Since this is an all-new mount, a similar shape seems reasonable. On the other hand, my judgement that this mount is smaller may be an illusion. Perhaps these are additional 90 mm mounts, which would bring the total to the 12 barrels described in references.

The identification of the smallest mounts is still unresolved. Multiple 37 mm or six-barrel 20 mm seem equally plausible.

Don S.

[TAMMY]

You are fully rght for the 135mm guns. They were new mounts developed for Aquila, the Comandanti Class destroyers and the rearming of Premuda.

For 90mm, as the Aquila had no such guns. it is possible that they are not guns but the fire directors of similar shape.. There were four of them: two in the middle on the large central sponson on the left and two on side sponsons forward and behind the funnel on the right side.

The 65mm were in shielded open mounts of square shape, more or less lke the mpunt of the 135mm but obviously smaller.

If these are right the smaller pieces can be only the 6x20mm, the only one foreseen on the final Aquila design.

By the way I think that the confusion on the armament comes from the fact that there were various design for an aircraft carrier based on the hull of Roma passenger ship. The one with 152mm, 90mm and 37mm (I have found another spurce that confirms the 104 37mm buit gives the 90mm as German 88) had a completely different shape and engine. For example had a sort of hurricane bow instead of an open one like the final design.