Wehrmacht '47 Wishlist 2010-2011

[sultanbev]

I am presuming the JagdPanzer E-50 is the Panther II(aka III) with centrally mounted 128mm gun, a bit like a JagdTiger. Will be interesting to see...

[Schwerepunkt]

I agree, this juggernaut with extremely heavy frontal armor would have been very useful in combat against Maus and E-100. While very slow, the design was initally proposed for the invasion of Japan to use in direct frontal assault on Japanese positions. That along with Little David, the 36inch mortar would have given the US Army tremendous firepower.
I plan to purchase the new American SP gun and look forward to later German Wehrmacht 47 issues such as the Waffentrager Tiger fur 210 morser and other heavy guns.

[Schwerepunkt]

Germans planned to enlarge the armament for both the MAUS and E-100 heavy tanks.
E-100 was selected for carrying the 21cm morse artillery piece as well as the 17cm gun.
MAUS was selected for the 18cm gun as well as the STURM mount from the SturmTiger vehicle.
Advantages of the MAUS/E-100 vehicle with heavy armament is that in addition to heavy tank engagements, the guns could have been used statically as long range artillery.
The MAUS STURM mount would have been exceptionally useful in assault tactics.
I have submitted the MAUS for possible production. Frankly, all that would be needed would be new turrets for each chassis.
Schwerepunkt/Bob

[CG1]

By 1945 the Allies were heavily dependent on tactical air power to defeat German forces, especially the armour. There's no reason to suspect that in '47 things would have been different. On that basis, I would like to see at least :
Hawker Tempest
Gloster Meteor
Me-262
Late model Thuds and Mustangs
A26 Invader
MiG-15
F-80 Shooting Star

The possibilities of the Bell 47 helicopter would also bring in a whole new dimension.

Enzian and Wasserfall missiles would be needed to help balance things out.

I'd love to see a V3 or V4 missile mobile launcher and firing post pack to keep those US atom bombs away! Lots of scenarios around defending such a set up.

[Donald M. Scheef]

Since you have already included the Me 262, I don't see any reason to provide Vasserfall or Enzian to "balance things out."

I don't see the Bell Model 47 as providing a "whole new dimension." Its payload was much too small for a true combat helicopter. At best, it provided an improvement on the capabilities of light aircraft such as the "Grasshopper" L- types. In a similar vein, the Germans would use the Flettner Fl 282 (intermeshing rotors), the British the Bristol Sycamore, and the Soviets their Kamov Ka-15 (co-axial rotors).

True combat-capable helicopters would not have been available in the 1947 era. Two possible entries (as troop transports) are the Piasecki HRP (twin rotors on long fuselage - much later improved as the H-21 Shawnee) and the Focke-Achgelis Fa 223 (laterally-mounted twin rotors).

For the British, split the Hawker Tempest into the F.II radial-engine type and the F.V in-line engine type. Add the Hawker Fury - a radial-engined fighter bomber with wings shorteded from those of the Tempest for improved speed and maneuverability at low altitude. More importantly for a '47 scenario, add the deHavilland Vampire - a single-engine jet fighter that just missed the end of the historical WWII. I would like to include the English Electric Canberra twin-engine jet bomber, but the first flight wasn't until 1949 - too late for inclusion in a '47 scenario.

For the Germans, add the Heinkel He 162 "Volksjager" single-engine jet fighter, the Henschel Hs 123 single-engine jet ground attack aircraft, and the Arado Ar 234 twin-engine jet bomber.

For the US, the F-80 Shooting Star is an excellent choice. I don't think a late-model P-47 or P-51 would be all that interisting (except that for WWII scenarios, a bubble-top P-51 would be nice). The US would have been using survivors of existing P-47 and P-51 models in the ground-attack role, but by 1947, Republic was concentrating on the F-84 Thunderjet (which would be very useful in a '47 scenario) and North American was building the FJ Fury and working on the swept-wing F-86 Sabre. An A-26 Invaider would be nice - useful also for Korea and up into early Viet-Nam. However, WWII-era scenarios are still lacking an A-20, which was built in much larger numbers. For '47, I would suggest that the Army Air Corps might have adapted the Navy's Douglas AD Skyraider, just as happened 20 years later in Viet Nam.

The Soviet MiG-15 could not have been ready in 1947. Instead, I would suggest the straight-wing MiG-9 (a twin-engine jet fighter with the engines in the lower part of the fuselage) and Yak-15 (essentially a Yak-3 with a jet engine mounted under the forward part of the fuselage). The improved Yak-17 and Yak 23 could also have been available in 1947. The Il-28 twin-engine jet bomber would also be entering service at about this time.

For surviving piston-engined aircraft in the Soviet forces, a Lavochkin La-5/7/9 would be nice - the earlier models could also be used in WWII scenarios. The famous Il-2 Stormovic was being replaced by the similar but improved Il-10. The Tupolev Tu-2 twin-engine attack bomber and Petlyakov Pe-2 twin-engine medium bomber were WWII designs that continued in service well after the end of the war.

Don S.

[CG1]

Well I wasn't trying to list everything, just the ones I want to see first. I also don't see it as unreasonable that we pull some items forward a bit as the pace of development slowed after World War Two and it would not have done so had the war continued.

On that basis, I don't see why the Bell 47 or similar might not have deployed early experimental A/T missiles (maybe SS.10?) as these would certainly have had priority in development with all that heavy armour about. The C&C benefits certainly shouldn't be ignored nor the artillery control factor which would have improved close support fire - after all, artillery was the big killer at the end of the war.

I suppose a lot is going to ride on what sort of condition you assume Germany is in at this stage - does it have access to raw materials etc and sport full T&OEs or is it battered and heavily outnumbered? The latter would certainly favour slower aircraft guiding artillery onto small numbers of massive armoured behemoths but heavier AA would slaughter the slow-movers. I think I'll add an AC-47 with standard 20mm and 0.50cal to the list - no reason that couldn't have happened!

[Donald M. Scheef]

Sorry, I didn't mean to put you down; just give a different list of my favorites. I totally agree with the Tempest, Meteor, Me 262, A-26, and F-80. Recognizing that the pace of technical development would have continued at a higher pace if the war had continued, I just don't think that second-generation (e.g., swept-wing) jet aircraft would have been available in 1947. Faced with a nuclear-armed US, the Soviets didn't slow down development of fighter/interceptor aircraft at the end of the war and still didn't have the MiG-15 until 1949.

An AC-47 definitiely could have happened in '47. The question here is whether it would have been effective. The ACs were developed to deliver high-endurance firepower (especially at night) for stationary firebases against infantry without sophisticated anti-aircraft weapons. I wouldn't expect it to be very effective against a mobile armored force with self-propelled anti-aircraft guns and the possibility of a radar-equiped night fighter showing up. Something like an A-26, Meteor, or Il-10 would be much more to my liking in this situation.

As for an AH-13 (armed Bell 47); it just didn't have the payload. It might have carried a couple of .50 cal machine guns or small rocket packs, but not a guided missile. Even something like the SS.10 weighed almost 40 pounds. Add a gunner and electronics for missile guidance (no fire-and-forget this early, and the pilot needed both hands both feet to control the aircraft) and you more than max out the lifting capacity. The H-13 and its contemporaries would have made useful reconnaissance/spotter aircraft, but were too small for a more direct combat role. Perhaps something more powerful than the Bell 47 could have been available in '47, but it would have been a different aircraft.

Don S.