Let's bring the Air Forces up-to-date and go stealth!
It's time to bring on the F22 Rapter & F/A35 Lighting II, the B1B Lancer, B2 Spirit , & B52 Buff Bombers into the mix for the US Air Force.
While we're at it, let's bring on the lastest Russian and Chinese aircraft also.
Finally, let's bring into the mix the lastest European aircraft to round things out.
I know the F22 Rapter and F/A 35 Lighting II are few in number and/or not fully deployed yet, but it is only a matter of time before they are both up to speed and see combat.
All the rest have and/or are being used, so it's only a matter of time before they meet somewhere in the world.
Any of the aircraft mentioned will be miles away using standoff weapons in any scenario with a credible ground threat. Their weapons would show up JDAM, JSOW, LGBs etc. but the planes would never be seen. My opinon, not much use really. Unless they were made for 1/2400 engagements then you could play out air to air or air to surface engagements even with extended BVR ranges available.
Paul
“It's a beautiful thing, the destruction of words.â€
― George Orwell, 1984
People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf.
- George Orwell
I'd buy them, but in limited numbers. I'll use them, as I would with all of my other fixed wing aircraft, in a limited capacity as everything except for helicopters would be too high and fast above the battlefield. One capacity I'd use them is as rescue objectives. I'd also use them just as a physical representation for airstrikes. (show the general position of the plane at a given point in time).
Still, I don't see it in GHQ's priority to make until these planes see as widespread use as F16s or Mig 29s. In any case H&R already makes F22s, so I'd buy those models from them. Also I'm looking at using Gamecraft Miniatures' YF-23 as a temporary representation for the East's Fifth Generation fighter known as the PAK-FA.
Its a sniper rifle, not a "sniper"! You don't call an assault rifle an "assault"!
First Command Master Gunnery Staff Sergeant Major First Class of the Army (1CMGSSMFCOTA, E-25)
Tornado with ADM belly packs. They fly over contested ground. In any case, if you want to limit your gaming to ground only and 'pretend' that you have air support, fine. If you like the idea of representing the available assets on board, then models work. If I recall, wargames research group in one set of rules made it a requirement that if you intend using it in the game it should be 'represented' by a model. Personally I collect a 'flight' of any a/c I intend to use, and that fills the role for as many of those aircraft as I like, as long as no more than a flight are active at any one time.
Again, horses for courses, but I wouldn't say the aircraft suggested had no gaming value. Not that the particular aircraft mentioned interest me.
piersyf wrote:Tornado with ADM belly packs. They fly over contested ground.
I totally agree. My comments are directed toward fifth generation aircraft which Tornado is decidely not. F-22, F-35 (if it doesn't get axed) are far more likely to employ weapons from standoff ranges than they are likely to get down and dirty. Their systems are that good, the weapons are that good and there is no point exposing them to unnecessary fire.
piersf wrote:if you want to limit your gaming to ground only and 'pretend' that you have air support, fine. If you like the idea of representing the available assets on board, then models work. If I recall, wargames research group in one set of rules made it a requirement that if you intend using it in the game it should be 'represented' by a model.
Personally, I like to try to have my forces act as much as possible like their real counterparts would within the limits of my experience and knowledge. Tactics and doctrine evolve when new capabilities are introduced. The US Air Force is still figuring out all the new ways they can use what they have in the F-22. I wouldn't hamstring myself shackled to the dictates of a ruleset likely written before the advent of fifth generation aircraft.
Collecting for collecting sake I can totally understand but as far as these aircraft being present in any meaningful way in a typical micro armor game table is too much of a stretch for me. (Used for a rescue objective that makes some sense to me as well.)
Paul
“It's a beautiful thing, the destruction of words.â€
― George Orwell, 1984
People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf.
- George Orwell
I take it no one wants to fight an airwar while the ground combat is going on?
You know, we have been real lucky for the last couple of decades and not had to fight someone who really had some top notch stuff, skilled Command and Control, and the pilots to really fly that stuff and burn up the skies with it!
Remember, ground support is one thing, but if you do not fully control the airspace they fly in, it could get real dirty, real quick!
Without control of the airspace, the ground guys are going to have a very ruff and tuff time on top of that!
Something to think about!
Thanks for all the comments.
Spock1
I have about 6 F-22, along with 6 B-1s, 1 B-2, several B-52, AR-71 and some satellites. Have not really used them. Owned some for a decade or more. Nice to have them 'on call' should I 'need' them in a battle or box battle for the sake of conjecture.
I did 'use' some B-52s in a game 15 years ago against few hundred battletech figures. Rules were not compatable....so that last about 10-15 minutes. The battletech players were saying there is sand storm a mile high...okay drop tons of bombs, sub-munitions.
they did not go for it. It can change the face of a game. Heck, two AH-64 Ds can do that.
One thing I'm hoping to utelize is a couple of these C-130s I got from that japanese set of 1/300 plastic aircraft. I left the wings removable so I can make a more convincing wreckage.
Its a sniper rifle, not a "sniper"! You don't call an assault rifle an "assault"!
First Command Master Gunnery Staff Sergeant Major First Class of the Army (1CMGSSMFCOTA, E-25)
Well, regardless of the stand off capacity I think they should be represented as models if they are to influence the passage of play. If they are an air superiority aircraft then they have a chance to knock down enemy air assets before they hit their ground targets. Even if they are an interdiction type aircraft they should be represented; we have artillery figures off board don't we? To my mind, no difference.
Each to their own.
We do have arty off board. Usually one does not need to pull the arty out. But, at times need the figs to play the figs. It is what makes the game visual and enjoyable for many. Otherwise have counters.
I like representing the aircraft, I put them on flight bases and have them set up in front of the target. Let local AA fire, if they don't drive it off then you roll the bombs.
I like to see the planes on the table, even if they are only on for a few minutes. But it does limit the numbers since with close air support you would normally only have one or two make a run. I have a wide range of planes in ones and twos.
One of these days I would like to get around to running a game on a scenario I read from a battle in 2001 in Afghanistan. An SF A-Team was attached to a unit of Northern Alliance defending a ridge. A large force of Taliban and allies with armor lined up to attack them. They had them heavily outnumbered but the SF team had an air force combat controller attached and they just rolled waves of bombers in and crushed them.
It would make a fun convention game with the referee and controllers playing the Taliban and the gamers controlling the NA and the air power.
I use a trio of Academy Models 1/300th scale B-52's as part of my "Vulture Legion", they are alot more fun to have cruise over the table dumping a world of hurt across the battlefield. They are a lot more dramatic than "off-board artillery" and can even de-moralise other players...kinda like the real thing.
And yea, like Chrisswim, I've used them against Battletechers...and oh the bellyaching from that side of the table. Just wait till I find me some jeeps with recoiless cannons to covert into "Davy Crocketts"( the M-29 kind not the coon skin cap fellow)...Heheheh...
