Consolidated Micronaut Wish List

[Donald M. Scheef]

Consolidated Micronaut Wish List Summary

Replaced by updated list 2011-02-20.

Don S.

[OldNavyGuy]

Oy, I could go on forever on this subject. I know that for all intents and purposes it seems like a dead line, but the boats I'd like to see:

CV Forrestal
CV Kitty Hawk
CVN Enterprise
CVS Oriskany
SSBN Ohio
SSN Virginia
SSN Seawolf
SSN Skipjack
CGN Virginia
CGN Truxtun
CGN Bainbridge
CGN Long Beach (maybe with superstructure variations for pre- and post-refit? A guy can dream, can't he?)
CG Belknap
CG Leahy
CG Albany
CAG Boston
CLG Little Rock
DDG Kidd
DDG Farragut
DDG Charles F. Adams
DD Forrest Sherman
DD Mitscher
DD Gearing FRAM
DE Claud Jones
FF Garcia
FF Bronstein
LPH Iwo Jima
LPH Boxer (ex-CV21)
LPD Austin
LSD Anchorage
LST Newport
SSBN Delta IV
SSBN Yankee II
SSBN Hotel III
SSB Golf V
SSGN Papa
SSGN Charlie II
SSGN Echo II
SSN Akula
SSN Alfa
SSN November
SS Tango
SS Foxtrot
SS Whiskey
CVN Kuznetsov
CVH Moskva
CG Kara
CG Kresta II
CG Kresta I
CG Kynda
CL Sverdlov
DDG Kashin
DDG Kanin
DDG SAM Kotlin
DD Kotlin
DD Skoryy
FFL Riga
LPH Ivan Rogov
LST Ropucha
LST Alligator
LSM Polnocny
DDG Type 42/Batch 3 Manchester
FF Type 23 Duke
FF Type 22 Boxer
LPH Ocean
LPD Fearless
SSBN Vanguard
SS Oberon
DDH Iroquois
FFH Halifax
FF Annapolis
FF Mod Restigouche
CVN Charles de Gaulle
CVH Jeanne d'Arc
CV Foche
SSBN Le Triomphant
SSBN L'Inflexible
SSN Rubis
SS Agosta
DDG Cassard
DD Georges Leygues
DD Tourville
DD Aconit
FF Lafayette
FF D'Estienne D'Orves
FF Floreal
LSD Foudre
LSD Ouragan
SS Type 212
SS Type 206
FF Sachsen
FF Brandenburg
FF Bremen
DDG Luigi Durande de la Penne
DDG Audace
FF Artigliere
FF Maestrale
FF Lupo
FF Alpino
LPD Giusto
LPD San Giorgio

Really, now, I'm not being greedy, am I? And I didn't even mention the JMSDF and PRC ships I'd like to see, too. Oh, well, dreams are fo dreaming . . .

[Donald M. Scheef]

Consolidated Micronaut Wish List Summary

Replaced by updated list 2011-02-21

Don S.

[av8rmongo]

Don,

Thanks again for starting and maintaining this list. I look trough the items and I just have to shake my head at all the missed opportunities to separate me from my money. A shame really. Keep up the good work.

Paul

[Laevakutt]

Hello Naval Wargamers,

It is that time of year again, when the naval wargamers and collectors alike seek to fill the gaps in our miniature fleets by submitting recommendations to the cast-masters and decision-makers at GHQ for the following year’s productions. I am very grateful for last year’s releases. The dozen releases were all very interesting to me and I have already added many to my collection. I am happy that GHQ is continuing to develop their existing product lines. I trust the professionals at GHQ as they are obviously running a great company that knows how to please its customers. In that tone, I submit this list humbly and as food for thought. To be honest, not a lot changes from last year, so at least I am consistent. Perhaps there are other modelers and gamers who would agree (or disagree) with my proposals and scenario ideas. If nothing else, then perhaps, my ideas will generate some discussion in the forum amongst the naval wargamers.

I was very pleased when GHQ introduced the Koninklijke Marine Line a few years ago. It is not possible to do an early Pacific War scenario without ABDA. All of the significant programs are represented except two. Granted these were not completed in time to fight in the war. In order to give the Japanese a headache in January 1942 I propose:
1. Dutch 1047 Battlecruiser - There were to have been three of these 28,000 ton formidable ships. The design was in concert with the Germans, and they would have roughly resembled the SCHARNHORST class though with some notable external differences, so it is not possible merely to use the German ships instead, the modification is too great. I have done a lot of modification in my time to make ships that were different from each other in each class. The other nice thing about this model would be that the three could not only be used to hunt the Japanese cruisers in the Southwest Pacific, but could be also be put into German colors - "seized at the beginning of the war" hypothetically. Granted, they were never laid down, but it would be a great what-if scenario, aides to SCHARNHORST and GNEISENAU prowling convoys out of Brest or Norwegian lairs.
2. PROVINCIEN class cruiser (as designed) - There were two of these ships laid down prior to the War. They were not completed by the time of the German invasion however. So again, not only could a person purchase these two 8300 ton light cruisers for Koninklijke Marine, but they could also go under German colors as well. Germany seized these two unfinished ships and classified them as KH1 and KH2 intending to finish them themselves, but never worked very seriously in getting them completed. They would be nice to have with DE RUYTER in the East Indies or with PRINZ EUGEN in the Baltic at War's end.

I was also very happy to see last year’s additions to GHQ’s Soviet and Russian lines. We all know how ambitious the Soviet regime was. Ambitious he was indeed, but not very practical when it came to seeing a naval program through to fruition. Between the economic constraints of communism and the fact that many of the naval architects and shipwrights fell victim to the Purges, many of the novel designs and good ideas did not get off the design boards. That is where I would like to focus. Like the Dutch line, I think that the Soviet Navy could be nicely augmented with just a couple of additions.
3. SOVETSKII SOJUZ (Projekt 23) - As originally foreseen they were to comprise a class of fifteen 59,000 ton battleships. Later this was reduced to only eight and then to just six, but only four were laid down. This class was to be the centerpiece of Stalin's Oceangoing Navy. The final version of Projekt 23 is what was laid down, the previous version of 46,000 tons being redesigned and finally approved in 1938. The four that were laid down were laid down between the Summers of 1938 and 1940. In fact, one was captured on the stocks by the Germans in the Crimea. It sort of reminds one of VOLYA from the previous war (a great way to use a GHQ IMPERATRISTA MARIYA). Nevertheless, there were indeed eight vessels ordered and that would be very interesting to have in all theatres of operation: Northern, Baltic, Black and even North Pacific.
4. KRONSHTADT (Projekt 69) - These were planned as a class of sixteen ships, however in June of 1940 this number was reduced to only eight. Nevertheless, if GHQ were to issue this model, I am sure that there are some "Stalinist" purists out there who would take all sixteen, just as with SOVETSKII SOJUZ project. Only two of these ships were laid down and with commissioning dates foreseen in 1942. These were the Soviet ideas generated from the Panzerschiffe and SCHARNHORST classes as well as the P1 design. Though the fluidity of information regarding Soviet naval designs is sketchy and at times contradictory. An addition of these ships into the Baltic Sea makes for a nice recipe for latter war scenarios, or perhaps as units operating against the Japanese. One of these was also captured by the Germans and disassembled on the ways.
5. STALINGRAD Projekt 82 (as designed) - As planned, there were to be seven of these ships. They were ships designed with war experience and due to difficulties in getting funding and the numerous changes in the design, these ships did not get laid down until 1951. Even then, only three of them were ever laid down. Like the ZEVEN PROVINCIEN and the later SVERDLOV and CHAPAEV classes these ships could be packaged to bridge the gap between the Second World War and the early "modern" period, kind of in the manner of last year’s USS MIDWAY.
6. CHAPAEV Projekt 68 (as designed) - Seven of these cruisers were laid down prior to the German invasion in 1941. In total there were fifteen of this Project foreseen and there were another four that were authorized and submitted to builders prior to falling afoul of the need to produce equipment for the Red Army in order to defend the homeland. Indeed, these ships were completed with very little alteration even after the Great Patriotic War despite the delay in entering service until 1950. An addition of fifteen, or perhaps only seven as laid down, cruisers into the fray would give the German admiral interdicting those Murmansk convoys some additional considerations. How would ADMIRAL SCHEER or ADMIRAL HIPPER contend with these threats?
7. SVERDLOV Projekt 68bis (as designed) - This class of twenty-five (some sources report twenty-seven) Cold Warriors is indispensable for those early post-War sea control scenarios. The Projekt 68bis is the 13,320 ton improvement on the 10,642 ton hull of CHAPAEV. Though not all of these ships were completed, fourteen were. That makes more SVERDLOVs than BALTIMOREs. In fact, one can think of these as the Soviet CLEVELAND Class. These ships had long service lives and carried just about every piece of Soviet armament and detection equipment available, even Red Army gear was mounted at times. As stated before with this type of "straddle class" comme ZEVEN PROVINCIEN, STALINGRAD, CHAPAEV and the recently releases MIDWAY, perhaps there could be modified deckhouses or armament/sensor suites added in the GHQ blister pack to give these ships an even broader appeal. Also consider how good your GHQ PRINZ EUGEN hull would look with modernized Soviet superstructure placed on top of it to stand in for a modernized LUTZOW comme TALLIN.

Of course, in the way of ambition there is hardly a parallel to the German Z Plan. GHQ already offers the H-39 battleships, which are much appreciated. I would heartily welcome additional units as foreseen by the Admiralstab. The H-44 instantly leaps to mind, albeit unlikely. I am sure that we would all add this monstrous improbability into our miniature Kriegsmarines by the sixfold, if someone would produce this beast. However, there are more practical German designs that came nearer to fruition than the H-44 monstrosities. Much of what we know of today as Germany's maritime war plan during the Second World War came from Admiral Wegener published after the First World War. Specifically, Admiral Wegener posits that the reason Germany lost the First World War is that she was never able to impose maritime hegemony beyond her immediate environment vis-a-vis the North and Baltic Seas. This was because the German government respected the neutrality of Denmark and Norway as well as Portugal and Iceland. With the Z Plan and bases in the Azores and Iceland, the Kriegsmarine and Germany's destiny take on different complexions. Indeed, the most realistic of the Z Plan were the smaller ships. There were the M Class cruisers and the Spähkreuzers but there were also the likely heavyweights:
8. O-P-Q Class Battlecruisers - These were a class of three ships armed with six of the same 380mm guns that were carried by the BISMARCK Class. These ships were improvements over both the Panzerschiffe and the SCHARNHORST Classes. They would be able to threaten convoys far away from Continental Europe thus forcing the RN to provide heavier escorts to the convoys themselves. This in itself could lead to some nice scenarios to sort out south of Iceland in the vicinity of the MOMP. None of these ships were laid down and in fact only one of these ships was ever ordered.
9. P1 Class Panzerschiffe - In addition to the O-P-Q Class battlecruisers there was a class of twelve improved Panzerschiffe proposed as a follow-up in the Z Plan. With a dozen additional panzerschiffe at hand to base out of pretty much anywhere the scenarios take one, would tie down a lot of British shipping. Admittedly, they were never laid down, but can we in the Micronaut milieu live without our own alternatives a-la Wehrmacht '47?

10. HMS LION - This group of four ships was seen as a response to the BISMARCK Class building in Germany. Orders were placed in 1939. Unfortunately, only two of them were ever laid down. These ships were 40,000 ton "improved KGV" armed with 16in guns. At the outbreak of the war construction was suspended as resources were steered to the construction of escorts.

11. Finnish Coast Defense Ship VÄINÄMÖINEN – This unique ship and her sister ILMARINEN were designed in The Netherlands by the Ingenieurskantoor voor Scheepsbouw. That was the same company that served as a German front and developed most of the modern U-boot apparatus. While not being very good seaboats in the least, these two coast defense ships were typical of a type of ship that was suited to the Baltic Sea. They had pretty active careers in the Baltic Sea and the Gulf of Finland, participating in numerous operations. After the War, VÄINÄMÖINEN was given over to the Soviets. ILMARINEN was lost during Operation NORDWIND.

The last of the ships on this list are a small handful of ships belonging to the era of the Great War. This was a time when Germany did have a huge navy and raised a significant challenge to the British supremacy at sea. The Kriegsmarine of the Second World War was but a poor imitation of the Reichsmarine of the First World War. GHQ offers a very nice line of both British and German warships. There are still some capital ships that are not covered though.
12. SMS HINDENBURG - She was an improved DERFFLINGER built under the 1913-1914 Program but was not finished in time to fight at Jutland. This beautiful ship was completed in 1917, just in time to be too late for action. Her addition to the line offered by GHQ would enhance possibilities for action in a final sortie of the High Seas Fleet into the North Sea or as an active participant in the war in the Baltic.
13. SMS MACKENSEN Class Battlecruisers - This class of four (six planned) splendid battlecruisers from the latter half of the First World War represent Germany's ultimate wartime battlecruiser design to be laid down. Four were laid down, all after the war had begun. These 30,500 ton ships were armed with four double 350mm gun turrets and would have provided something special to those late-war sorties in which we can bring the High Seas Fleet into contact with the Grand Fleet augmented by the American squadrons GHQ has recently added to the new USN First World War line.
14. SMS SACHSEN - These two ships were the follow-ons to the BAYERN Class. They are armed with 380mm like BAYERN but were several hundred tons heavier and slightly longer. The physical appearance of these two ships is also significantly different from their predecessors. These ships were both laid down and launched but never completed due to other demands for resources. Not only could these two ships be used under German colors, but also their unfinished hulls could have been passed to another country as reparations.
15. USS MISSISSIPPI pre-Dreadnought - Many are familiar with this pair of under-performing pre-Dreadnought battleships. Commissioned too late to follow the Great White Fleet and sold to Greece too soon to serve in the USN in the First World War, these ships are interesting historically nonetheless. They served in the Caribbean and were active in the Mexico crisis. They would be useful for potential War Plan Black scenarios or could be put into Greek colors for use in the Aegean.

So there it is, my (not so) brief list of a few models I would enjoy seeing soon in the GHQ Production Announcement:
1. Dutch 1047 Battlecruiser Design
2. ZEVEN PROVINCIEN
3. SOVETSKII SOJUZ (Projekt 23)
4. KRONSHTADT (Projekt 69)
5. STALINGRAD (Projekt 82)
6. CHAPAEV (Projekt 68)
7. SVERDLOV (Projekt 68bis)
8. O-P-Q Class
9. P1 Class
10. HMS LION
11. Coastal Defense Ship VÄINÄMÖINEN
12. SMS HINDENBURG
13. SMS MACKENSEN
14. SMS SACHSEN
15. USS MISSISSIPPI pre-Dreadnought

I think that these fifteen classes would be very interesting productions for GHQ and would help round out their current lines. As I mentioned earlier, I think that it is important to finish out the established lines before beginning new ones. I suppose that VÄINÄMÖINEN would be the exception that proves the rule then. I think that she has merit since she can be used in conjunction with both the Kriegsmarine and the post-War Soviet fleet. That being said, those two a re a bit of an indulgence, I suppose. There are a plethora of different destroyer classes or modeling each sister ship from a class is not as important as issuing as many capital ships as possible, especially for scenario play. For instance, I would rather see RIVADAVIA or SAO PAULO produced (I would buy these two classes in a heartbeat by the way!) before more destroyers or frigates. That is why I would like to see capital ships and cruisers. For gamers, they are the building blocks for the fleet actions. Of course escorts are important, but the bigger ships allow for more options in different scenarios. In any case, I hope my post has helped to generate some thought amongst the rest of the naval gamers and collectors.

- Cheers

[Donald M. Scheef]

Consolidated Micronaut Wish List Summary

Replaced by updated list 2011-02-24.

Don S.

[Laevakutt]

Don,

I will answer your personal message in the clear so that everyone in the micronaut forum can participate in the conversation – if it is interesting enough. First of all, thanks for keeping the list. I am not sure if it is helpful to GHQ or not, and as I have mentioned often, the GHQ Staff is pretty adept at making us happy. While the list is perhaps a helpful barometer for the Staff, it is far from scientific. Nevertheless, it is the only game in town, and I think that we all appreciate you picking up the baton and keeping it updated for us.

As to a Kriegsmarine 47-esque mold, I do agree. I must confess that I do have a very large “fleetâ€￾ of 1/2400 ships as well as an ill-advised foray into 1/3000. I am also rather open minded in collecting. Unfortunately, I do not have the time at hand at the moment to get this massive collection into “serviceâ€￾. Anyway, your comments about JEAN BART, TIGER, DES MOINES, and WORCESTER are well taken. While DES MOINES is made by competitor of our hosts, the other three are not made in our scale. I am very interested in all of these ships, just as with the Soviet and Dutch ships that appear on my list that were started before the war and then either not finished or not finished in time.

I think that the drawback to the late-War or early Cold War or “never-wereâ€￾ models is that there is little “activeâ€￾ service history for the gamers. I think that most gamers enjoy re-enacting historical battles and seeing if they can out-Herod, Herod; so to speak. That is not really my thing; I prefer campaign scenarios and would like to inject hypothetical situations as well. Granted in the current catalog there are several representative hulls that lend themselves to this. While your point is a good one, I personally do not think that there is a lot of support out there by the rank and file wargamers for this era, especially in “never-weresâ€￾. I would love to see GASCOGNE as well as JEAN BART, or perhaps even the three-turreted Serie Solution C. I just do not think that there is a demand signal for it beyond a handful.

Indeed there are some interesting scenarios that could be built, but one must have the imagination. Then there is the aspect that to get a game together takes planning and a time to execute as well. Not many people are willing to risk that time allotted for a novel fiction. That is one of the reasons that I try to provide some info with my list, so that there is some context when it comes to the individual ships or classes. A case in point would be the MISSISSIPPI Class. They are not very useful ships, but are pretty important if one were to a Caribbean or Gulf Mexico War Plan Black scenario around 1910 or so. Another interesting ship is AGINCOURT. She is a one-off that really should be low on the list of ships produced for any manufacturer. However, her history is very complex and there were a lot of different countries that attempted to purchase here (openly or surreptitiously). Ships with foreign-design pedigrees are generally going to have more interesting histories than ships produced for the domestic market. A good example is HMS CANADA. A Chilean Jutland veteran that could have ended up briefly under the stars and stripes twenty-odd years later, I admit I have an HMS CANADA with a cage mast from the spare parts bin.

Don, thanks for the message. I hope that our conversation stirs some interest in our fellow gamers/collectors. Our hobby is very twentieth-century unfortunately and populated by old men. So, if a River Plate scenario at a convention or a Denmark Strait scenario on a Saturday can inspire young folks to get into our hobby – I am definitely supportive.

Cheers

[Donald M. Scheef]

Consolidated Micronaut Wish List Summary

Replaced by updated list 2011-03-07

Don S.

[Donald M. Scheef]

Consolidated Micronaut Wish List Summary

Replaced by updated list 2011-03-17.

Don S.

[av8rmongo]

Don,

I'm on a Korean War kick now (the one we almost had) please add my votes accordingly.

KDX-3 King Sejong the Great class DDG
KDX-2 Chungmugong Yi Sun-shin class DDH
KDX-1 Gwanggaeto the Great class DDH
Ulsan class FFG
Po Hang class PCC
Donghae class PCC
Dokdo class LPH
Go Jun Bong class LST

Paul

[sjolly75 H4]

Don,

I'm on a Korean War kick now (the one we almost had) please add my votes accordingly.

KDX-3 King Sejong the Great class DDG
KDX-2 Chungmugong Yi Sun-shin class DDH
KDX-1 Gwanggaeto the Great class DDH
Ulsan class FFG
Po Hang class PCC
Donghae class PCC
Dokdo class LPH
Go Jun Bong class LST

Paul

I would agree with the above - as unlikely as seeing more modern 1/2400 come out, I'd love to do some Korean war part deux.

[exodusforever]

Don,

It is a given that modern isnt really the "hip" thing around the naval block of wargaming.

But i like to throw it out for the collectors. I wanna vote for Type 23 UK Frigate and Type 45 Daring Class.

[Donald M. Scheef]

Consolidated Micronaut Wish List Summary

Replaced by updated list 2011-03-20.

Don S.

[Fluorophil]

Hi all,
Here are my votes (for the time being) for the ships on the Wish List...
WWII UK battleship Lion design
WWII UK battleship Prince of Wales
WWII UK battleship Duke of York, Anson, Howe (late-war appearance)
WWII UK battlecruiser Hood (Projected 1942 reconstruction)
WWII UK light cruiser Southampton class (including Sheffield sub-class)
WWII Japan battleship Fuso
WWII Soviet battleship Sovietskii Soyuz design
Post Cold War Australasian frigate ANZAC class

That should do...for now...

[av8rmongo]

Hey you guys will love this:

In my never ending quest to find good quality deck markings and hull numbers for my ships I search the internet for any possible clues. So the other night I came across a site that deals with model ships and offers a variety of decals and other upgrades to basic kits, Starfighter-Decals.

So I send an email to the guy to see if maybe he could come up with something to fill this need and here is the email exchange:

Paul,

I'll give you the same answer as I give everyone else: You're kidding , right? Seriously, what I do in 1/700 pushes the envelope as far as printing goes. What I print in 1/1250 is almost invisible. Now you want it in 1/2400? This is a joke, correct? Early April Fools joke of some kind? If I sent you a sheet of 1/2400 markings and the sheet looks like it's empty, that's because it is. Accurate 1/2400 deck markings are invisible in that scale.

Sorry, I can't help you with that.

From:
To: mark@starfighter-decals.com
Sent: Sat, March 19, 2011 1:54:46 AM
Subject: Ship decals

Mark,

I've been scouring the web for good decals for modern aircraft carriers and other ships and I think yours are fantastic. One issue though is my chosen scale is 1/2400 for wargaming. Is there any chance of scaling any of your 1/700 or 1/1200 deck marking packs down to 1/2400? I know I'm not the only one out there looking for these for both modern and WWII ships. Thanks for the help.

Paul

Now I'm open to the possibility that I'm reading too much into his "tone" but it definitely tweaked me. If I'm wrong tell me but if, as I read it, he's giving me the big F U well... Just do me a favor and never do business with him.

In the meantime I'll keep up the search. I found a promising dry transfer system that might work but its about $200 to get up and running so its too much right now for an unproven technology. More to follow I'm sure.


Paul

P.S. Don - Put me down for one more vote for CV/CVN deck decals of all types.