Is there a table top renaissance?

[voltigeur]

I have noticed more miniature rules popping up. This is either because as I work on my 1-1 rule set local authors of games are coming out of the wood work. Or………..

Maybe there is a renaissance here? After all almost all computer games are first person shooters and don’t involve strategic thinking. The licensing tactics of the games that are out there suck and are a rip off.

Am I lucky or is the hobby making a small comeback.

[battlewagon]

You may be on to something! Between all of the interest in things military right now and the ability to find products, information and opponents via the internet we could be seeing an increase in the "sand table" crowd.

Works for me!

[HKurban]

I have noticed more miniature rules popping up. This is either because as I work on my 1-1 rule set local authors of games are coming out of the wood work. Or………...

Funny you should mention that, as I am also on the verge of finishing my 1-1 ruleset.

[twopounder]

People do indeed seem to be more taken by miniatures than they have the past 5 - 10 years. While this may be due to a slight decline in video games (though indie games are stronger than ever), I would say it's because of a shift from 25-28mm miniatures to 6-15mm miniatures.

More units and models for the price of larger games, bigger battles, full air and artillery support, and requires less capital to start. To add to the stack, even I'm developing a rule set that's due out sometime next month (for free, to boot). Might be a windfall year for mini wargaming

[TAMMY]

Just comparing the number of new and old manufacturers of 28mm and 6mm scale models I do not see this shift of scale, at least in Europe.

IThe main point is the wargaing period you play. Ancient to Napoleonic are definitely expanding to 28mm and the 6mm is never been a strong alternative,

The question is different for modern period but also here the number of new 15mm itens and rules (for examplòe for Flames of War) is much more tha 6mm models.

About the rules available, they are increasing but how many of the new ones actually sold in a certain quantity? When I started wargaming about forty years ago the rules available were very few and generally quite plain in look. Just prinmt without illustrations and colors. Since more or less ten years the rulebook are more expensive, colored, well presented, a lor of illustrations. I suppose that this depends on the fact that today it is easier to print a short run of well illustrated and colored book that have more appeal to the public.

[twopounder]

Nothing will be sold in quantity for a while. The largest wargame distributer is Games Workshop, and they've been reporting loses. Flames of War, on the other hand, is expanding substantially. A big part of pushing a game is its design. Ancient hasn't really taken off because a widely liked rules system hasn't been developed. GW released warmaster back in the late 90's, but the rules were atrocious so nobody played.

There is also the problem with miniature lines. Most of the new lines are 15mm because of the additional detail you can add. It costs money to start up a model line, especially in large quantity. 15mm is large enough to make masters with 3d printing, but small enough to be exponentially cheaper than 25mm+.

But, once a company or two focuses on both a good model range and decent rules, ancient and Napoleonic will take off.

[TAMMY]

twopounder
I may agree if you are talking commercial not if you refer to played games. Flames of War learned from Warhammer. A reasomable ruleset with continuous add-on and informations and a dedicated model range. The good idea was the choice of 15mm that was not a common scale for WWII.

The model ranges available for well established periods like ancient and Napoleonic are so numerous that it is difficult to find space for new ones except in 28mm scale. However this scale may appeal more to new players than to old ones. Even if a new set of rules (for example FOG pr Shako) has some success most people will simply rebase their own armies in 15 or 20/25mm. If you have may be a thosand figures it is difficul to change.

[Panzerleader71]

"Flames of War, on the other hand, is expanding substantially."

Not from what I have heard recently. A buddy of mine who owns a store dosen't stock Flames of War anymore because of problems with BF as a company, and a drastic drop in sales. If he is having problems then I am sure others are as well. Can't say I would complain if the line collapsed, I can't stand the FOW system.

Personally, I think the hobby is neither gaining new ground, nor losing any.

[fullmetaljacket]

Hello

To a point I would have to agree with a resurrgence in table top gaming. Still one problem persits and I thought I would never surcome to it. that is if you have to put a game on at a local hobby store or where ever. That is the transporting and carrying of said units, terran, boards etc etc... it can become a logistic nightmare at times. Especially when the store we game at on saturdays is only open till 6pm and most times we dont get setup and going till 11:30 or 12 noon.

And most con type historical minis are to weak in game mechanics or organziation for the most part. There are some exceptions out there. Me myself I like a more realistic game, eventhough it may slow the game a bit. I hate the i got 12 d6 to your 2 d6 dice off as i call it. I like a tactics and strategy to be involved. Thats just personal preference everyone is different.

Some of the best gamers when it comes to table top is the older generation, but once again its the old they dont want to leave home and game syndrome.

Only other problem with table top gaming is the intial cost of models, minis depending on what you are playing, Also people that never buy or offer any help they want to use all your micro, models, or stands, and then have the nerve to break them or not care if they do. We all know that we have spent countless hours painting, building and organzing.

I will give some of the industry credit some games are coming allready painted figs and the like which really helps when people are looking to get into a new table top game. The variety and information is outstanding these days to.

Any way i will get off my soap box now, like i said just my two cents worth.

fullmetaljacket

[twopounder]

Odd. We have a store here that is literally open 24 hours on friday and saturday. As long as people are playing, they just seal off the merchandise area and keep the gaming room open. I was in a battletech game that ran from 8pm to 6am. Crazy I tell you.

I hear you on the rules, which was one of my points. Warseer, as an example, was a 6mm fantasy/ancient line that GW published around 1999 or 2000. The problem is that you had to roll morale to issue orders. When you failed, your turn was over. So you could literally start your turn, issue an order, fail, and your turn was now over.

Nobody likes to sit out half of their turns. There were a lot of other problems with the the game as well.

The point is, there appears to be a market and interest for all manner of 6mm and 15mm games, but a lack of rules that combine simplicity of learning with depth of rules. There also needs to be a push in indie stores to play 6mm. One of my local stores carries a few micro armor blisters, but most people don't even know what it is. There is no rule book on the shelf and the salesmen push Flames of War and Warhammer 40k instead.

People need a streamlined, clean, easy to understand rule book that's extensible. Complexity can always be added, but it's hard to make a complex book attractive to beginners.

[fullmetaljacket]

I have heard two stories concering 6mm.

One that it really got its roots started in europe, mainly due to smaller living conditions and room to game. Unlike us americans with our huge houses and lavish homes LOL! Second its to small the visual aspect isnt there like FOW and other larger scales. I dont agree with that statement I have seen some beauitful 6mm games at cons.

I dont know how much substance the above statements hold. Just what i have heard around the battle field over the years.

fullmetaljacket

[twopounder]

The big issue with detail in smaller models, is that most 6mm gamers are dedicated war gamers.

If you contrast the model and player of Warhammer 40k, you'll see a lot of exaggerated detail and disproportionate modelling. This is done to get more of an anime or stylized effect instead of realistic. This detail is given substantial attention in the painting processes, which makes this special detail stand out even more. Warhammer 40k does not utilize camo or realistically bland colors.

Micro Armor, on the other hand, is made to be a more realistic war game. While the detail is still there, it is more proportionate and not made specifically to stand out. Further more, people tend to paint their models so that they look realistic. This means OD green with no highlighting, shading, or attempt to make the model stand out.

I'll see if I can post a pic showing the difference between a contemporary M1A2, and one painted like it would be in Warhammer 40k as a comparison.

[TAMMY]

I think that most of the comments up to now are more relevant to mechanized wargame then to wargame in general.

There are three different reasons for using 6mm figures instead of larger scales:
1) do the same battle on a smaller table
2) Do a larger battle on a normal table
3) Do the same battle using more figures.

An example of 3). I have made various Seven Yera war Armies in 6mm using the base size for 15mm scale but filling them with more figures. The game are played as they were 15mm but the visual effect is much more realistic, Of course the terrain is made in 6mm scale.

This method is not liked by many people because you lose the details of the larher figures but I prefer to have (with the rules I use) a regiment with 32 figures instead of 8.

This method may apply to all periods before the 20th century as you don't play them 1:1 or 1:3 or 5 scale but with units formed by a certain number of figures on a base of adequate size. A figure may represent anything from 20 to 200 or more men depending on the scale of the game.


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