Odd forces/ Conflicts

TAMMY · Post by **TAMMY** » Thu Jun 12, 2014 8:43 pm

Argentina has the TAM: Tanque Argentino Mediano.

A German project of local manufacturing with 105/51 gum.

DRPgeneral · Post by **DRPgeneral** » Thu Jun 12, 2014 8:57 pm

According to wikipedia they do...unless i read wrong

Heres the link

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_ ... d_vehicles

TAMMY · Post by **TAMMY** » Thu Jun 12, 2014 9:54 pm

Sometimes Wikipedia makes mistake. Argentina has nop M1 tanks.

BtTWitwould be too heay for them. They decided to develop the TAM, a 30 ton tank, just for weighreason.

Look at this other wikipedia more complete and detailed llist

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argentine_Army

and as a further confirmation, this one with a list of countries operating the M1

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M1_Abrams

DRPgeneral · Post by **DRPgeneral** » Fri Jun 13, 2014 6:32 am

Wow! Saudis, irakis, egyptians and kuwait armed with M1s, but i bet they are not the current ones the U.S uses

Thanks for the info guys,

Mk 1 · Post by **Mk 1** » Fri Jun 13, 2014 6:48 am

DRPgeneral wrote:Wow! Saudis, irakis, egyptians and kuwait armed with M1s, but i bet they are not the current ones the U.S uses

I don't think we've built any new M1 Abrams tanks of any variety for more than 10 years now.

All of the older ones (M1A1, M1A1HA) were sold, discarded, or upgraded to M1A2 standard. I don't think there were any buyers for M1SEPs or M1E1s.

Egypt got some M1s when we first began supplying them in the mid-1990s, I think. But after Desert Storm I doubt any foreign buyer was interested in anything less than an M1A1. For the last 10-12 years or so there have been none of that ilk to supply to someone else, even if we wanted to. So it's M1A2 or better, or nothing at all.

Other than systems upgrades (new computer or software, and the Urban combat kit) I don't think there is anything available to US forces that would not also be on the M1's we sell abroad. There just isn't much that can be different.

At least that's my impression. Could be wrong. Will be interested to learn if it is otherwise.

chrisswim · Post by **chrisswim** » Fri Jun 13, 2014 10:38 am

Besides Egypt, which has used the M1A1 and now has M1A2 (as I recall), Kuwait, Saudi Arabia, Jordan uses M1S(M1A1 turret on M60 hull) Australia uses M1A1 AIM. My info is that the US still has M1A1 AIM. I concur that we have not built a completely new Abrams in a long time, we strip them down, bash the hull with pellets and re-build with new turret and electronics.

As for South American countries using the Abrams, would be limited since bridges need to be able to support the weight and the policy of the US Govt. There are M48 and M60 along with some other European tanks distributed throughout the continent along with some former Russian equipment.

whoa Mohamed · Post by **whoa Mohamed** » Fri Jun 13, 2014 11:55 am

Eygpt builds its own M1s under license. The Kuwati version has older electronics, The Jordanians have a Few M1s for training and evaluation Thier Primary MBT is a chalenger variant. The Austrailian M1A1 SA is the only version built to US electronic standards But has a different armour configuration and to the best of my knowledge no operator except the US has the DU round.

DRPgeneral · Post by **DRPgeneral** » Sat Jun 14, 2014 8:08 am

So then this is my question.

Why arm potential countries who can potentially become enemies with M-1s (except australia)?

I know its all about the money, but come on they all want to destroy israel...is the U.S playing two sides here?

Also is the U.S planning a new MBT? Im not into current military news, i only know that the F-35 is in development.

piersyf · Post by **piersyf** » Sat Jun 14, 2014 11:30 am

As an example, the US began supplying Egypt with hardware after the 1973 war with Israel once an agreement had been made that Egypt wouldn't attack Israel again (they haven't. They have even unofficially helped Israel locate militants crossing the border from Egypt into Israel). It was also done to keep Egypt out of the Soviet sphere of influence. Given that the Egyptians blamed Soviet doctrine for their loss (rather than their own poor standards), it was an easy sell. This wasn't about selling stuff to a customer; the US provides billions in aid to Egypt each year as well as providing a substantial amount of technical support for their equipment (because even 30 years later, they still can't train enough engineers to maintain their own equipment). This deal COSTS the US, and they pay it to try to keep peace between Egypt and Israel.
One the other hand, think of Egypt as an Apple customer; once in, you can't get out. If Egypt breaks their promise (as almost happened recently) the US just says "oh well, I guess you don't need our aid any more". The Egyptians know that the equipment is useless without US help maintaining it. Look at Iran for an example.

whoa Mohamed · Post by **whoa Mohamed** » Sat Jun 14, 2014 11:30 am

Because none of the countries we equiped have crews skilled enough to take advantage of the M1 and if we ever have to fight M1s we will just back off and use airpower.....Since the Israelis have spent the past two decades selling US technology secrets to China I No longer feel they are truly allies or even if they ever were so i am not as sympathetic to thier plight as I once was, That's thier fault . And most importantly of all the current administration (The US) utterly incompetent . But at any rate the Argies don't have M1s but very soon the ISIS will ...

7.62 · Post by **7.62** » Sat Jun 14, 2014 12:06 pm

whoa Mohamed wrote:But at any rate the Argies don't have M1s but very soon the ISIS will ...

And the only way Maliki can hang in there is with the US flying top cover for the Iranians!

Now that is an odd Force.

chrisswim · Post by **chrisswim** » Sat Jun 14, 2014 4:59 pm

My info is the aussies have received their M1A1.AIM They have 3 color camo. They ref'd them in single color desert yellow.

whoa Mohamed · Post by **whoa Mohamed** » Sat Jun 14, 2014 7:11 pm

Hey Chris
The Aussies have had them for a few years now..They had a few for eval as early as 2006 I saw them during Talisman Saber , which are always great to be in ....The Leo 1A4s and everything else just looks Bad AZZ in aussie cammo...What a truly beautyfull country if it was'nt that everything that swims ,flies or walks could kill you dead Id move there. The people have a lust for life that we in the US used to have. The Rockabilly scean was in full swing when I was there yet you could still find and old Karokie bar with lively characters to hang out with and no lie "Waltsing Matilda" has a true charm that only gets better the drunker you get ....good times.

TAMMY · Post by **TAMMY** » Sat Jun 14, 2014 8:40 pm

DRPgeneral

you wonder for M1 to Middle East countries, but theyare only one of the types available in the area:
Jordania has locally improved Challenger 1
UAE have Leclerc
Oman has Challenger 2
Qatar will have Leopard 2 A7 (under delivery)

Note that Sausi Arabia has a requirement for 6-800 Leopard 2A7 but the purchas has been stopped by the German goverment mainly for political consideration on the charactweristics of Saudi government.

DRPgeneral · Post by **DRPgeneral** » Sun Jun 15, 2014 12:27 am

To all who replied:

Thanks so much for clearing my head. That info was really good, and about israel selling secrets to Beijing, that is awful.

Considering that israel is a close allie, i dont want to imagine what the rest of them do behind the U.S back. It seems like little by little the rest of the nations are giving the U.S their back.

Anyways the ISIS, seems to be gainig force in iraq. What are some scenarios on this conflict.

Will Kurdistan finally become a nation if iraq central gov is overthrown?

What will the kurds in syria do? Assimilate to the Iraqi kurds?

And is Kurdistan accepted by the world if it becomes Autonomous?