Hey Fellas,
I started playing the "Panzer" rules for my Micro Armour Mini's. I made each single tank on a stand represent a "Battalion same held true for infantry on a stand. I realized to give the game more depth I wanted to make it that when a "stand" takes a hit it would take a step loss along with the unit having their firepower and tank armor to be reduce. It only makes sense because a unit at full strength should have more firepower over a unit with one or two step losses left.
So what i did to achieve this was to times the firepower and armor on the Panzer cards by "3" if the unit is at full strength. If a unit takes one step loss i would then times firepower and armor by "2". If a unit has 1 step loss left it would be considered a "Company" and the firepower and Armor would be times by 1.
Again, a one step unit that is a company should not have the same firepower or armor
How do you guys handle larger games with battalion and company units???
...
step loss and depth
Moderators: dnichols, GHQ, Mk 1
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Mk 1
- E5
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- Joined: Fri Dec 24, 2004 3:21 am
- Location: Silicon Valley, CA
Hey Steel !
Welcome to the forum ! Glad to see you here.
I do not play at 1-to-Company or 1-to-Battalion scale, so do not have personal experience with the particulars of rules in that area.
But from what I have observed of others, they often have reduced fire and reduced strength mechanisms for units, much like the "steps" you have described.
One thing I would suggest, though, it that you consider not making the steps linear. Units that have taken some casualties are often still near to full combat capabilities, but then at some point (much to be debated) the casualties seem to make a substantial reduction in their abilities. So for example you might find a 3-step unit, where the unit has full abilities at 3 steps, 3/4 abilities at 2 steps (1 step lost), and 1/4 abilities at 1 step (2 steps lost). This might have an interesting effect on games, as experienced players become hesitant to subject units that have already taken 1 step of casualties to enemy fire, which tracks reasonably to how casualties generate hesitation in units that still have substantial remaining combat power.
The rules I prefer are 1-to-1 scale for vehicles, and 1-to-squad scale for infantry. Even there, in my favorite rules (Mein Panzer) infantry stands (squads) have 2 steps if they are full strength squads (8 to 12 men). Smaller stands (gun crews, command stands, etc. which might be 3 to 7 men) have only 1 step. A casualties result from combat removes one step, so often a full sized squad will continue on at reduced strength. The rules provide firepower for each nation's squads (and each squad type) at both 2 step and 1 step strength. It is not linear, and differs depending on the weapons load-out of the squad. So a squad with only rifles, vs. a squad with 1 LMG, vs. a squad with 2 LMGs, will each have a different reduction when they lose a step.
This leads to the challenge of tracking who has taken casualties.
And so I have created some casualty markers for my games. These are made with a small clear plastic base of irregular shape (cut from any handy thin plastic box), painted red, with a prone / disheveled infantry figure (from the extras bin). They wind up looking a bit over-done on the gore (too much red), but they are easier to handle and more visible at game scales and game distances that way.
Here you see some Russian WW2 infantry in battle in one of my games, trying to cross marshy ground under artillery fire. So much info to keep track of! The infantry might be
disbursed (taking fire and seeking cover, reducing movement or fire for 1 turn) which is marked by a dust ball, they might be suppressed (gone to ground, reducing movement and fire until an activation is used to improve their morale) which is marked by a suppressed chit, and they might be reduced to 1 step, which is marked by a casualty figure on their base.
When a squad is eliminated I leave the casualty marker behind on the game table, as I often have scenario specific victory points based on casualties, and counting the casualty figures makes end-of-game resolution faster. I also often have scenarios-specific rules for medical evacuation, so a player might get some of his victory points back if he gets his medics to the casualty markers.
Just some notions. Seems to enhance my games. Your mileage may vary.
Welcome to the forum ! Glad to see you here.
I do not play at 1-to-Company or 1-to-Battalion scale, so do not have personal experience with the particulars of rules in that area.
But from what I have observed of others, they often have reduced fire and reduced strength mechanisms for units, much like the "steps" you have described.
One thing I would suggest, though, it that you consider not making the steps linear. Units that have taken some casualties are often still near to full combat capabilities, but then at some point (much to be debated) the casualties seem to make a substantial reduction in their abilities. So for example you might find a 3-step unit, where the unit has full abilities at 3 steps, 3/4 abilities at 2 steps (1 step lost), and 1/4 abilities at 1 step (2 steps lost). This might have an interesting effect on games, as experienced players become hesitant to subject units that have already taken 1 step of casualties to enemy fire, which tracks reasonably to how casualties generate hesitation in units that still have substantial remaining combat power.
The rules I prefer are 1-to-1 scale for vehicles, and 1-to-squad scale for infantry. Even there, in my favorite rules (Mein Panzer) infantry stands (squads) have 2 steps if they are full strength squads (8 to 12 men). Smaller stands (gun crews, command stands, etc. which might be 3 to 7 men) have only 1 step. A casualties result from combat removes one step, so often a full sized squad will continue on at reduced strength. The rules provide firepower for each nation's squads (and each squad type) at both 2 step and 1 step strength. It is not linear, and differs depending on the weapons load-out of the squad. So a squad with only rifles, vs. a squad with 1 LMG, vs. a squad with 2 LMGs, will each have a different reduction when they lose a step.
This leads to the challenge of tracking who has taken casualties.
And so I have created some casualty markers for my games. These are made with a small clear plastic base of irregular shape (cut from any handy thin plastic box), painted red, with a prone / disheveled infantry figure (from the extras bin). They wind up looking a bit over-done on the gore (too much red), but they are easier to handle and more visible at game scales and game distances that way.
Here you see some Russian WW2 infantry in battle in one of my games, trying to cross marshy ground under artillery fire. So much info to keep track of! The infantry might be
disbursed (taking fire and seeking cover, reducing movement or fire for 1 turn) which is marked by a dust ball, they might be suppressed (gone to ground, reducing movement and fire until an activation is used to improve their morale) which is marked by a suppressed chit, and they might be reduced to 1 step, which is marked by a casualty figure on their base.
When a squad is eliminated I leave the casualty marker behind on the game table, as I often have scenario specific victory points based on casualties, and counting the casualty figures makes end-of-game resolution faster. I also often have scenarios-specific rules for medical evacuation, so a player might get some of his victory points back if he gets his medics to the casualty markers.
Just some notions. Seems to enhance my games. Your mileage may vary.
-Mark 1
Difficile est, saturam non scribere.
"It is hard NOT to write satire." - Decimus Iunius Juvenalis, 1st Century AD
Difficile est, saturam non scribere.
"It is hard NOT to write satire." - Decimus Iunius Juvenalis, 1st Century AD
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piersyf
- E5
- Posts: 625
- Joined: Sat Oct 04, 2008 1:59 pm
- Location: Melbourne Australia
Yeah, I don't get making a vehicle represent a platoon, let alone a battalion. However, if it tickles your fancy... things to consider...
in the British army it is not unknown to have a general order 'left out of battle' where up to 20% of men from a combat unit are sent to the rear before an attack. They considered 80% to be near enough to full strength, and if the attack went horribly wrong there was something to rebuild around.
I'd recommend linking unit morale and command control to your step figures. Some units broke when they fell to 50% of their number, some still fought with only 10% remaining. One example was the British paras at Arnhem; at one stage a section of infantry was armed entirely with Bren guns because they could... the rest of the battalion was dead or wounded. They kept fighting.
In Timor, 1942, a single British bofors crew, alone and in retreat, saw Japanese fighters circling overhead. They set up the gun, hid it, and one of the crew jumped up and down in the open waving his shirt and hurling abuse at the Japanese. When one dived on him, the gun opened up and shot it down. A second came down to get revenge, and died too. The Japanese left, and the crew packed up and continued the retreat. A full battery of bofors is 18 guns, but they stopped, fought back, then continued...
Basically, availability of weapons, ammunition and attitude determine capacity.
Also consider the job... my role was command post signaller in an artillery Regimental control centre. We KNEW we could operate at 70% casualties (we trained with those numbers, managing the three batteries).
So, as Mk1 says... don't make your steps linear. The historical evidence suggests it was anything but!
in the British army it is not unknown to have a general order 'left out of battle' where up to 20% of men from a combat unit are sent to the rear before an attack. They considered 80% to be near enough to full strength, and if the attack went horribly wrong there was something to rebuild around.
I'd recommend linking unit morale and command control to your step figures. Some units broke when they fell to 50% of their number, some still fought with only 10% remaining. One example was the British paras at Arnhem; at one stage a section of infantry was armed entirely with Bren guns because they could... the rest of the battalion was dead or wounded. They kept fighting.
In Timor, 1942, a single British bofors crew, alone and in retreat, saw Japanese fighters circling overhead. They set up the gun, hid it, and one of the crew jumped up and down in the open waving his shirt and hurling abuse at the Japanese. When one dived on him, the gun opened up and shot it down. A second came down to get revenge, and died too. The Japanese left, and the crew packed up and continued the retreat. A full battery of bofors is 18 guns, but they stopped, fought back, then continued...
Basically, availability of weapons, ammunition and attitude determine capacity.
Also consider the job... my role was command post signaller in an artillery Regimental control centre. We KNEW we could operate at 70% casualties (we trained with those numbers, managing the three batteries).
So, as Mk1 says... don't make your steps linear. The historical evidence suggests it was anything but!
There is no right or wrong, only decisions and consequences.