By the way, in UK English 'To Trump' also means 'to break wind'.
I think the Royal Navy will never let you guys hear the end of it
New aircraft carrier
Moderators: dnichols, GHQ, Mk 1
-
BattlerBritain
- E5
- Posts: 628
- Joined: Fri Apr 29, 2005 7:00 pm
- Location: Somerset, UK
-
piersyf
- E5
- Posts: 625
- Joined: Sat Oct 04, 2008 1:59 pm
- Location: Melbourne Australia
-
microgeorge
- E5
- Posts: 100
- Joined: Wed Nov 24, 2004 6:57 am
- Location: Arlington, TX
-
microgeorge
- E5
- Posts: 100
- Joined: Wed Nov 24, 2004 6:57 am
- Location: Arlington, TX
I notice that the majority of comments on this thread come from our Oz friends. As I would not venture to comment on your internal politics on this forum perhaps you should show the same regard. This is a forum about playing with toy soldiers (and military history) and not the Daily Kos or National Review. Please don't poison it with political comments.
-
panzergator
- E5
- Posts: 3466
- Joined: Thu Oct 08, 2015 3:44 am
-
saxophone
- E5
- Posts: 147
- Joined: Sat Jan 08, 2005 5:06 am
- Contact:
-
Donald M. Scheef
- E5
- Posts: 1629
- Joined: Sun Jun 25, 2006 2:24 am
- Location: Waukegan, Illinois USA
re: "... long standing tradition of naming aircraft carriers after us presidents."
Naming aircraft carriers after U.S. presidents didn't become a "tradition" until CVA 67, John F. Kennedy, commissioned in1968. From that time until now, nine of twelve carriers (completed or announced) have been named after U.S. presidents.
I wouldn't include CVB 42, Franklin D. Roosevelt, as starting a tradition. It was over 20 years until another carrier was named after a president.
Assuming that it is a "tradition," it is one that I don't like very much. There has been way too much political influence rather than naval tradition involved.
The real tradition in naming U.S. aircraft carriers is to name them after battles and historic U.S. Navy ships. This initially was to be the format for battle cruisers, but with the completion of Lexington and Saratoga as carriers this became the form for the vast majority of U.S. carriers. I think that selecting "Enterprise" as the name of CVN 80 is a step in the right direction.
Exception to this pattern:
- CV 1, Langley, was named after an early US aviation pioneer.
- CV 13, Franklin, was named after an earlier ship-of-the-line (but this was named after the scientist and diplomat Benjamin Franklin).
- CV 15, Randolph, was named after an earlier frigate (but this was named after the 1st President of the Continental Congress).
- CV 19, Hancock, was named after an earlier frigate (but this was named after the Revolutionary War leader).
- CVB 42, Franklin D. Roosevelt, named after the recently-deceased president (who never served in the military).
- CVL 49, Wright, named after the aviation pioneer brothers.
- CVA 59, Forrestal, was named after the recently-deceased Secretary of the Navy.
- CVA 67, John F. Kennedy, named after the recently-deceased president (who had served as a junior officer in the USN during WWII)
- CVAN 68, Nimitz, was named after the Fleet Admiral of WWII
- CVN 69, Dwight D. Eisenhower, was named after the deceased president (who had been General of the Army in WWII)
- CVN 70, Carl Vinson, was named after the congressman (who had never served in the military, but was influential in government/military affairs) This broke a long-standing tradition in the U.S. Navy; the ship was commissioned while Carl Vinson was still alive.
- CVN 71, Theodore Roosevelt, was named after the deceased president (who had served in the Army during the Spanish-American War).
- CVN 72, Abraham Lincoln, was named after the deceased president (who had served in the Army (militia) during the Blackhawk War.
- CVN 73, George Washington, was named after the first president of the U.S., previously commander of the Revolutionary War army.
- CVN 74, John C. Stennis, was named after the recently-deceased senator (who had never served in the military but was influential in government/military affairs).
- CVN 75, Harry S. Truman, named after the deceased president of the U.S. (who served in the U.S. Army during WWI).
- CVN 76, Ronald Reagan, named after the former president of the U.S. (who served in the U.S. Army Air Corps - in a non-combat role - during WWII).
- CVN 77, George H.W. Bush, named after the former president of the U.S. (who served in the U.S. Navy as a carrier-based pilot during WWII).
- CVN 78, John F. Kennedy
Don S.
Naming aircraft carriers after U.S. presidents didn't become a "tradition" until CVA 67, John F. Kennedy, commissioned in1968. From that time until now, nine of twelve carriers (completed or announced) have been named after U.S. presidents.
I wouldn't include CVB 42, Franklin D. Roosevelt, as starting a tradition. It was over 20 years until another carrier was named after a president.
Assuming that it is a "tradition," it is one that I don't like very much. There has been way too much political influence rather than naval tradition involved.
The real tradition in naming U.S. aircraft carriers is to name them after battles and historic U.S. Navy ships. This initially was to be the format for battle cruisers, but with the completion of Lexington and Saratoga as carriers this became the form for the vast majority of U.S. carriers. I think that selecting "Enterprise" as the name of CVN 80 is a step in the right direction.
Exception to this pattern:
- CV 1, Langley, was named after an early US aviation pioneer.
- CV 13, Franklin, was named after an earlier ship-of-the-line (but this was named after the scientist and diplomat Benjamin Franklin).
- CV 15, Randolph, was named after an earlier frigate (but this was named after the 1st President of the Continental Congress).
- CV 19, Hancock, was named after an earlier frigate (but this was named after the Revolutionary War leader).
- CVB 42, Franklin D. Roosevelt, named after the recently-deceased president (who never served in the military).
- CVL 49, Wright, named after the aviation pioneer brothers.
- CVA 59, Forrestal, was named after the recently-deceased Secretary of the Navy.
- CVA 67, John F. Kennedy, named after the recently-deceased president (who had served as a junior officer in the USN during WWII)
- CVAN 68, Nimitz, was named after the Fleet Admiral of WWII
- CVN 69, Dwight D. Eisenhower, was named after the deceased president (who had been General of the Army in WWII)
- CVN 70, Carl Vinson, was named after the congressman (who had never served in the military, but was influential in government/military affairs) This broke a long-standing tradition in the U.S. Navy; the ship was commissioned while Carl Vinson was still alive.
- CVN 71, Theodore Roosevelt, was named after the deceased president (who had served in the Army during the Spanish-American War).
- CVN 72, Abraham Lincoln, was named after the deceased president (who had served in the Army (militia) during the Blackhawk War.
- CVN 73, George Washington, was named after the first president of the U.S., previously commander of the Revolutionary War army.
- CVN 74, John C. Stennis, was named after the recently-deceased senator (who had never served in the military but was influential in government/military affairs).
- CVN 75, Harry S. Truman, named after the deceased president of the U.S. (who served in the U.S. Army during WWI).
- CVN 76, Ronald Reagan, named after the former president of the U.S. (who served in the U.S. Army Air Corps - in a non-combat role - during WWII).
- CVN 77, George H.W. Bush, named after the former president of the U.S. (who served in the U.S. Navy as a carrier-based pilot during WWII).
- CVN 78, John F. Kennedy
Don S.
Last edited by Donald M. Scheef on Sat Nov 12, 2016 9:01 am, edited 2 times in total.
"When a fire starts to burn,
here's a lesson you must learn:
something-something and you'll see
you'll avoid catastrophe."
D'oh!
here's a lesson you must learn:
something-something and you'll see
you'll avoid catastrophe."
D'oh!
-
piersyf
- E5
- Posts: 625
- Joined: Sat Oct 04, 2008 1:59 pm
- Location: Melbourne Australia
I took a step back from this thread, but glad to see some semblance of normality returning.
I understand (better than you might think) that there are some sensitivities over politics in the US at the moment, so calm is always welcome.
To respond to 2 points, though:
The rubber duck was a reference to naming a Carrier the USS Donald. I'd have done the same for anyone called Donald (sorry Don), it's just too good an image to pass up.
Secondly, no I never wrote for my high school paper. I did write my Master's thesis on politics and policy, and at what point a government should be aware that a policy position is no longer viable. I did well enough to be invited back as a lecturer.
I understand (better than you might think) that there are some sensitivities over politics in the US at the moment, so calm is always welcome.
To respond to 2 points, though:
The rubber duck was a reference to naming a Carrier the USS Donald. I'd have done the same for anyone called Donald (sorry Don), it's just too good an image to pass up.
Secondly, no I never wrote for my high school paper. I did write my Master's thesis on politics and policy, and at what point a government should be aware that a policy position is no longer viable. I did well enough to be invited back as a lecturer.
There is no right or wrong, only decisions and consequences.
-
panzergator
- E5
- Posts: 3466
- Joined: Thu Oct 08, 2015 3:44 am
Some of us here in the US have had our fill of both candidates, the media, and the "process." For some of us, it has nothing to do with who won or who lost,. It's just so deep here that even one person sticking his finger into the pool increases the depth to just above our desperate nostrils. Under those circumstances, some reaction is predictable.
All blessings flow from a good mission statement.
Pogo was right. So was Ike.
"A Gentleman is a man who is only rude intentionally." (Churchill)
Give credit. Take responsibility.
Pogo was right. So was Ike.
"A Gentleman is a man who is only rude intentionally." (Churchill)
Give credit. Take responsibility.
-
piersyf
- E5
- Posts: 625
- Joined: Sat Oct 04, 2008 1:59 pm
- Location: Melbourne Australia
Agreed, and I certainly don't want to make waves for you all, standing on your toes as you are. A lot of countries around the world are looking at their political processes right now, the US being just the latest. How that pans out is best left to those countries to sort out... after all it is their country.
Personally, I have only taken issue with 2 comments so far;
"As I would not venture to comment on your internal politics on this forum perhaps you should show the same regard"
our currency has lost 2% value since Tuesday, and our stock market has crashed. I doubt that would make the news in the US, but to say that the US election is 'internal politics' is, to put it politely, naive.
that this forum is free of politics. Maybe re-read the 'imagination' threads with the views of an outsider... the thread is full of politcal subtext. I'm not being critical, I've even posted occasionally, just saying.
I hope you can all stay afloat. I actually think quite fondly of the US.
Personally, I have only taken issue with 2 comments so far;
"As I would not venture to comment on your internal politics on this forum perhaps you should show the same regard"
our currency has lost 2% value since Tuesday, and our stock market has crashed. I doubt that would make the news in the US, but to say that the US election is 'internal politics' is, to put it politely, naive.
that this forum is free of politics. Maybe re-read the 'imagination' threads with the views of an outsider... the thread is full of politcal subtext. I'm not being critical, I've even posted occasionally, just saying.
I hope you can all stay afloat. I actually think quite fondly of the US.
There is no right or wrong, only decisions and consequences.
-
microgeorge
- E5
- Posts: 100
- Joined: Wed Nov 24, 2004 6:57 am
- Location: Arlington, TX
-
dougeagle
- E5
- Posts: 726
- Joined: Thu Mar 23, 2006 10:07 am
- Location: Northern Alberta
Shouldn't have to leave. We are all adults on here, or should be. If anyone gets offended by it, tough s**t, that's they're problem...or just mosey on past it and go to another thread...plain and simple.Fireball wrote:Well that is it................ lets bury the rubber duck incident.
I don't think i'll be posting here anymore although i love the GHQ miniatures.
Found another forum that i might give a go.
You have to constantly double check your post so that someone will not get offended or worst still gets offended on behalf of someone else.....too old for it and can spend the time better somewhere else.
Just be carefull guys that your sensibilities don't get in the way of actually having some meaningful discussions or there wont be any topics left for you or anyone brave enough to tackle them.
One last observation:
It never fails to amuse me how an American will on one hand tell you about freedom, liberty for all , first amendment and all that jezz while on the other hand he will cheerfully shut you down when or if your view are not his views.
Was that last statment political? sorry about that
Fireball over and out.
Doug
A goal is not always meant to be reached, it often serves simply as something to aim at.
Bruce Lee
A goal is not always meant to be reached, it often serves simply as something to aim at.
Bruce Lee
-
jaxenro
- Posts: 57
- Joined: Thu Feb 12, 2015 6:38 am
I don't like naming ships after presidents especially if they were alive in the last 100 years. I collect U.S. coins and I feel the same I don't like presidents on coins. Before the Lincoln penny it was usually variations of liberty as a female then the Lincoln penny, Jefferson nickel, Roosevelt dime, etc.
Ships should be named after admirals, sailors, historical ship, and places
Ships should be named after admirals, sailors, historical ship, and places