Ideas on using western civilians

Pekedog · Post by **Pekedog** » Mon Jul 03, 2017 12:35 am

Whether you are asking/answering questions with your wargame or just trying to increase the stress on each side, I think GHQs western civilians adds a lot to your palette. I am trying to figure how best to use them. Have some thoughts, would like to hear other ideas

When do you use them? Something has happened so quickly civilians could not be evacuated; natural (or unnatural disaster), civil unrest, invasion or a hybrid of the two. Victory conditions would include saving all you can

Control? Referee (white cell) would control. They are more orderly if MP or civilian authorities present. Some will go, some will sightsee, some will stay home. They may not know something is going on and could panic depending on who hears what. Adds a consideration for both sides

Conversions? I am still trying to paint these convincingly, but going to try these
1. 'Cell phone to ear' man into 'TV camera' guy
2. To Several of the figures will add signs, some saying "Yes", some saying "No" to represent protestors

Any other ideas for use of civilians?
Any other ideas for conversions?
Some figures with briefcases makes them look like lawyers. I keep hearing about 'lawfare'. Does anyone know the frontage for a company of lawyers

Thanks in advance

Donald M. Scheef · Post by **Donald M. Scheef** » Mon Jul 03, 2017 2:52 am

"Frontage" for a company of lawyers is measured in billable hours.

Don S.

panzergator · Post by **panzergator** » Mon Jul 03, 2017 8:22 am

The frontage of lawyers, being a lot of hot air, would be indicated by meteorological isobar symbols on a map. Given capacity of average lawyer for hot air and a company of 90 lawyers, I would say a width of 3000 meters, with a range of about the same. Given radios, the same company could jam the full radio frequency spectrum out to a range of 60 miles for 30 days.

Pekedog · Post by **Pekedog** » Tue Jul 04, 2017 6:53 am

Not much love to lawyers. Good thing I did not write that figures with briefcases could also be politicians. Not sure the utility of lawyers in a game but politicians might be important for hybrid warfare games

I think a major affect of civilians would be restrictions to a forces movement. An added task to whomever has the role of recon to check routes beforehand. To model this I figure I will just use a template/table to track civilian movement. I am trying to hunt down some papers that have data to fill those tables, I am sure this has been researched somewhere. Looking for a quick and efficient way to plug this in to a game

Once recon has detected groups of civilians evacuating, could this alter that sides strategy. Now there is this group of evacuees that need to be protected

This is just some ideas I thought about while mowing the grass, thought I would throw them out

Thanks

Pekedog · Post by **Pekedog** » Tue Jul 04, 2017 6:54 am

Not much love to lawyers. Good thing I did not write that figures with briefcases could also be politicians. Not sure the utility of lawyers in a game but politicians might be important for hybrid warfare games

I think a major affect of civilians would be restrictions to a forces movement. An added task to whomever has the role of recon to check routes beforehand. To model this I figure I will just use a template/table to track civilian movement. I am trying to hunt down some papers that have data to fill those tables, I am sure this has been researched somewhere. Looking for a quick and efficient way to plug this in to a game

Once recon has detected groups of civilians evacuating, could this alter that sides strategy. Now there is this group of evacuees that need to be protected

This is just some ideas I thought about while mowing the grass, thought I would throw them out

Thanks

panzergator · Post by **panzergator** » Tue Jul 04, 2017 9:45 am

There are always delegations on inspection tours, officials carrying documents for senior commanders, civilian contractors... Hostages, victims, targets.

CG2 · Post by **CG2** » Tue Jul 04, 2017 12:10 pm

Apart from the sensible ideas, I like these :

- An urban revolution scenario where victory points are gained by killing politicians, lawyers, estate agents, traffic wardens, parents who let their children drive the trolleys in supermarkets on Saturday mornings.........

- Confusion factors - command decisions will have a random element based on how many politicians are at the HQ. All operations can have movements randomly delayed or ridiculous rules of engagement added at random based on how many lawyers are available.

chatto · Post by **chatto** » Tue Jul 04, 2017 1:25 pm

There are a couple of options I thought might be useful...

Briefcase guy: VIP obviously, arms dealer, cash carrier etc. There's SOMETHING in that suitcase team X wants, Team Y needs to protect, and Team Z just wants destroyed!

Runners: Can be added into the mix with the Zombies to add some people being active running from chaos (just because they don't have their hands up doesn't mean they aren't just running from the location!)

Guy checking watch: Another VIP... might be a dicker... or maybe he's the local insurgent commander, wondering why the bomb he placed hasn't gone off yet?

People on phones: Dickers for obvious reasons. Who are they talking to? What are they talking about amongst that crowd?

Ladies with handbag: Since they have relatively generic stances they could be either bombers with bombs in their handbags, or dickers.

'Kid' and 'Farmer': "What is it Dad?" "Beats me" *Pokes IED...

Now looking at them by themselves that is the options I see.

HOWEVER, intermesh them with other packs... things get interesting fast.

Middle Eastern Civilians: They're a mixed religious nationality, not everyone in country X wears the veil or follows religion Y. *Admittedly I don't like the Middle Eastern civvies, they look like bad railway hobby models to me*

ISIS Infantry and Sub Saharan Irregulars: Hostages/ Meatshields... why else haven't these terrorists been blown to pieces by the air force?

Zombies: The most versatile pack to use with them...

With some basic cutting and manipulation of arms on both the Western Civilians and the Zombies, you have the potential for...
A) Refugees, add in some Donkeys from the Taliban Heavy Weapons kit, or a civvy car or two from some other source and you have a neat little "protect the refugees" marker.
B) Rioters *arms cut and bent to look like fists/ raised up etc
C) Walking wounded

chatto · Post by **chatto** » Tue Jul 04, 2017 1:31 pm

Pekedogs idea is also great!

Use the civvies as markers for "civil unrest", until your team can determine whether the unrest is dangerous or not, an insurgent commander can 'influence' the movement of the crowd moreso than the proper military force until either

A) they use the unrest as a 'portal' for their troops to 'appear' from and the stand disperses as the insurgents open fire

B) The crowd is dispersed by gunfire within X inches (negative points for the forces of order if they are the ones firing and MAJOR loss if they fire into the crowd, which causes a permanent disbandment but runs the risk of creating a free insurgent team for the opposing team with a randomly rolled skillset/morale.

C) If groups converge you run the risk of a riot starting which may culminate into a real nasty state of affairs for either side.

chatto · Post by **chatto** » Tue Jul 04, 2017 1:31 pm

Finally there is also using them as bait markers for Zombie expansion. For every civilian they kill, add a new Zombie token?

panzergator · Post by **panzergator** » Tue Jul 04, 2017 5:46 pm

I will use them to save money. By not buying figures, I have more money to spend on vehicles.

Pekedog · Post by **Pekedog** » Tue Jul 04, 2017 7:13 pm

Thanks for ideas, some stuff I had not thought of

Three big things that are sort of driving this. The recent business in Crimea, watching people's reaction in the videos from the tsunami in Japan, and how my region of the country gets when a big hurricane hits and immediately after

That confusing time just as a conflict is starting, maybe no one really knows what is going on offers some challenges. Blue now not only has to fight red, but protect civilians, maneuver around them and find out what is going on. Who exactly is red in some cases. Red would need to rely on those factors as red might not have enough assets to fight blue straight up

One idea I am working with is a town (5-6 GHQ buildings) with 50-100 civilian figures. A explosion is heard, or word filters in something is happening. How do those 100 figures move, how do they impact blue and red. Then later in news crews, politicians. Like someone mentioned, something might trigger unrest, what affect does that have?

I was not going to get into zombies. There is the argument of slow 'old school' zombies versus new fast zombies. How do they detect people, sight, smell, hearing. How do they move when they have no detections.

chatto · Post by **chatto** » Tue Jul 04, 2017 7:29 pm

I think the Zombies are essential to making a solid mix for the Western civvies. You have to remember the name is just that... if you are gentle with some pincers/tweezers you can easily manipulate it so they make have arms doing something else.

Hold a placard?

Look like they are throwing something (a firebomb perhaps)

The guy missing an arm/ guy missing some legs may be a slight issue, but some slight modding with some modelling putty will add an arm back onto the armless wonder... maybe even give the opportunity to add a weapon of some sort?

The legless fellow is the biggest problem as he is on the ground which in itself is a pain... maybe place a few around rubble/ pinned under cars etc for "humanitarian aid" markers?

If you were to play them as Zombies, my favourite was always a modified Codrycephs bacteria or a weaponised "Super Rabies"

chatto · Post by **chatto** » Tue Jul 04, 2017 7:29 pm

I think the Zombies are essential to making a solid mix for the Western civvies. You have to remember the name is just that... if you are gentle with some pincers/tweezers you can easily manipulate it so they make have arms doing something else.

Hold a placard?

Look like they are throwing something (a firebomb perhaps)

The guy missing an arm/ guy missing some legs may be a slight issue, but some slight modding with some modelling putty will add an arm back onto the armless wonder... maybe even give the opportunity to add a weapon of some sort?

The legless fellow is the biggest problem as he is on the ground which in itself is a pain... maybe place a few around rubble/ pinned under cars etc for "humanitarian aid" markers?

If you were to play them as Zombies, my favourite was always a modified Codrycephs bacteria or a weaponised "Super Rabies"

panzergator · Post by **panzergator** » Wed Jul 05, 2017 1:37 am

Zombies can likely be used as casualties, requiring evacuation assets and a collection/aid station.