TO&E for US M60/M60A2 organization.

[Dog Smack]

panzergator,

I'm curious about the camouflage scheme that the M60A2s carried that you saw. I have seen pictures of overall OD as well as MERDC. The vast majority of pictures I see have the A2s in MERDC. Seeing as the Army switched over to MERDC in the "70s" (not sure the exact date-would be interested to hear what you saw during that time) were the A2s that you picked up in OD or MERDC?

Appreciate the info!

Steve

[panzergator]

We drew our A2s in August of '75. They were dark olive green. We put black stars on them with white bumper numbers. The tanks remained green for at least the next year, by which time I had moved to the A1(RISE/AOS) battalion, 3-32AR. The A1s were the very ugly USAREUR camo of tan, brown, green and black. In Spring of 1977, we began repainting our A1s in the MERDC pattern (you can find examples of both on the internet). We used medium green, brown, and black. No tan/sand available, and we liked it that way. At some point, the A2 bn got some black and applied that, but I am unsure when they got full MERDC. I had enough to worry about in my own battalion. I left in summer of '78, and to be honest, I don't recall ever seeing MERDC on 1-32's A2s. I HAVE seen pics of 1-32 with MERDC from after my return Stateside. There is no reason to assume they weren't painting at the same time we were, I just don't remember. Maybe there was only so much paint at any one time. So let's say logically that they applied MERDC SOME time in '78. If I find anything different, I will let you know. I am always looking for more resources.

By the way, the only reference I have for A2s in 5-68AR and the distribution in 64th Armor is the Sabot Publication in the A2. I am looking through my stuff for other confirmation.

If you want to paint A1s in the USAREUR pattern, look on the internet. The brown used in GHQ's example is incorrect, although I know it was taken from the one on the cover of the old Squadron Signal pub cover. You can't rely on the printer to get that stuff to come out right. Look for photos and the pattern sample.

If you need clarification, help, or have other questions, I am always happy to help.

[Dog Smack]

panzergator,

Thanks for the quick response! Yes I must agree that the USAEUR is probably ugliest camo pattern the Army ever decided on.

I was interested in whether the A2s were in MERDC or OD for the majority of their time in service. Like i said the picks I have seen are mostly MERDC with a few in OD. Interesting to hear from someone who was actually there and experienced it.

As for the USAEUR/MASSTER scheme, I agree the GHQ colors are incorrect. I attempted to paint an M113 in that scheme but I didn't capture the colors quite right. The sand was too pale and the green was not olive enough. Ugly as it is I still want to paint it! See it here: http://www.ghqmodels.com/forum/viewtopi ... m113#45805

I appreciate any info! I picked up some A2s as soon as GHQ released them but I have not painted them yet, deciding on which camo would truly capture the M60A2.

Steve

[panzergator]

Judging from the 2 volumes in the A2s in 1-37, and from what I know of 1-32 and 3-33, it appears to me that you could see IF A2s in OD the first half of their service and MERDC the second half. I don't know when 3ID painted theirs.

My solution is 3 battalions, 2 OD and 1 MERDC. Of course, your unit could be in the middle of painting, with some already in MERDC and the rest still waiting.

I will have battalions in each, OD, USAREUR, MERDC, and NATO, once I'm done.

The pattern examples in the internet should provide chip numbers to help with shade. If you get it close, a little weathering should bring it home. And remember, in the wild, a camouflaged tank still looks just like a camouflaged tank. And paint faded, chipped, scraped, scratched, wore thin, and most of all, got covered in mud and dust.

[panzergator]

Oops, duplicate deleted.

[panzergator]

In case anybody is interested in using the USAREUR/MASSTER camo, the Sabot M60A2, Vol. 2 book cites the following colors on page 21: Sand FS30277 (base); Earth Red FS 30117; Green FS34127; and Black FS37038. The ratios are approximately 40% sand, 40% earth red, with green and black splitting the remaining 10%.

You should keep in mind that scale alters your perception of color shade, but I recommend using the cited paint numbers and altering color perception through the use of washes and weathering. In real life, many things affect perception of color; season, weather, age of the paint, surroundings, angle of the sun, time of day, wear and tear. NO tank in use looks like a museum tank, even when just off the wash rack. Tanks get dusty and break down just sitting in the motor pool.

Couple other things. T97 track was exchanged for T142 in 1977 in 1-32 and 3-32. Also got the sprockets with wear indicator, which was handy. The T142 was heavier than the T97. Because of the torsion bar offset, the track on one side had one more track block than the other. I wish I could remember which side was which. The bases for grenade launchers were mounted that year in A1s, but the launchers themselves were not. Rear fenders of tanks had a couple of strips of reflective tape on the outer and bottom edge to help Germans see them on the road. Rotating Amber Warning Lights (RAWLs) were added in '76. During REFORGER 75, while acting as umpires attached to 2nd ACR, we experienced two incidents of Germans running into the back of Sheridans 15 minutes apart, same troop. Nobody was killed. The Germans were all coming from a party, had a lot to drink, and were all sitting in the side of the road when the medics arrived, broken legs, broken arms, singing away and continuing to party. Not long after, we got RAWLs. The wire from the RAWL was run through one of the antenna mounts in our A2s. Unfortunately, when the stabilization was on, keying the mike to transmit would cause the gun and turret to jink back and forth, up and down. Fixed that QUICK!

Earlier, I said we started MERDC painting in Spring, '77, but it was late summer and ran for several months. So if your 3-32AR A1 battalion is all in MERDC, it's 1978.

When I get the new A2 sculpt, I will replace the main gun barrel with new brass ones. I wish I could do something about the cupola. Will probably replace the 50cal barrel, as well.

[panzergator]

Dog Smack,

Had a look at your USAREUR camo M113. Thought it was very good. First, There was evidently a lot of latitude in the pattern as actually applied, If you weather and flatten the paint a bit, it will look very realistic. The green WAS just green. Good example for anyone to start with.

I saw some of our MASSTER tanks in a tree line early in my tour. They had been operating in the field for several days. They had a coat of mud on their lower halves and uppers were covered in dust. Couldn't see any of the camo and the dust made them quite easy to pick out.

[Hoth_902]

Dog Smack,

I love your MERDC camo paint schemes. I am sure this is over the top, but would love to see a topic called simply Dog Smack's Corner- MERDC Paint schemes, or any other camo patterns. Good work for the scale/any scale.

Every time I see one of your pieces, it makes me want to paint some vehicles with similar paint schemes.

Mike

[panzergator]

Dog Smack, I think a little less green would be better. Otherwise, you nailed it.

[Dog Smack]

panzergator,

Thank you for the kind words! As challenging as it is I do like painting MERDC. Though I have to pace myself as it is tedious! I use the various template online as there is no way I could paint that scheme with out it.

I agree 100% on the issue with scale and needing the color to be lighter. It's challenging getting the "right" color. I personally don't think there is such a thing but there is definitely a correct hue. NATO green is green for sure but plain old Flat Green doesn't cut it. Still trying to figure out a good color for 4BO and later Russian vehicles!

Thanks again for the compliments as well as sharing your experiences when you were in the Army, very interesting stuff.

Steve

[panzergator]

Yeah, when you are staring down at 54 or 58 of those little things, the prospect of painting a camo scheme in 'an all is pretty daunting. Nevertheless, the end result is infinitely rewarding. My problem is finding the time.

[Johnnisch Government]

Thank you all for posting a lot of fascinating info on the M60A2. "History of the Shillelagh Missile System 1958-1982" by DeLong, Barnhart and Cagle adds some more info on the fielding and phaseout of the M60A2:

"Deployment of M60A2/SHILLELAGH

Troop confirmatory tests of the M60A2/SHILLELAGH system were conducted at Fort Knox and Fort Hood in the spring of 1974. However, DA's approval for tactical deployment of the tank to Europe was delayed to December 1974, chiefly because of problems with the main gun recoil system. The MICOM Commander, in late November 1974, had authorized the full release of the SHILLELAGH missile for use with the M60A2 tank. In February 1975, the first eight M60A2's equipped with SHILLELAGH missiles arrived in Germany. Company-size combat units began receiving the tanks in June 1975, and by March 1977 the planned deployment of 363 M60A2's to 6 USAREUR tank battalions was completed. In CONUS, 39 tanks with SHILLELAGH missiles were in service at Fort Knox and 59 at Fort Hood. The normal SHILLELAGH missile load for the M60A2 was 13 rounds per tank.

Initial plans envisaged an additional M60A2 tank battalion to be formed at Fort Hood in mid-FY 1977; however, DA had postponed that deployment until FY 1979. In April 1979, DA directed a significant reduction in the M60A2 force. Shortly thereafter, the plans to activate the additional battalion at Fort Hood were cancelled and the M60A2-equipped USAREUR battalions were reduced from six to three.

The revised plans drafted in FY 1979 called for the 540 M60A2 tanks produced thus far to remain in the Army inventory through FY 1987. Most of them were assigned to three tank battalions in USAREUR (1st and 3d Armored Divisions and the 3d Infantry Division) and to one battalion in CONUS (2d Armored Division at Fort Hood). In addition, M60A2's sufficient to equip one additional USAREUR battalion were held in POMCUS stocks in Germany. The remainder of the 540 were being used for training at Fort Knox or were stored as war reserves and floats.

Significant problems with both the SHILLELAGH missile and M60A2 tank in the FY 1978-79 timeframe, however, influenced future deployment plans for the weapon system. In FY 1978, four missile malfunctions occurred in CONUS (two at Fort Knox and one each at Fort Hood and Fort Bliss) in which the missile's gas generator ignited, but the rocket motor failed to ignite. In each incident, the missile left the gun barrel, traveled about 30 meters and hit the ground, where it lay until the hot gases from the gas generator ignited the rocket motor, causing the missile to ascend in uncontrolled flight. Investigation of the malfunctions led to a product improvement proposal to redesign the missile's gas generator/rocket thruster ignition sequence, adding an acceleration-sensitive switch which would prevent the gas generator from burning without rocket motor ignition. The modification was successfully demonstrated in February 1980 and plans were made to use the switch in the scheduled production verification tests of guidance and control improvements. However, the vendor could not deliver the switches in time to support these firings. Because of the early phaseout of the M60A2/SHILLELAGH (discussed below), this improvement effort was terminated.

Additional problems experienced with the M60A2 tank during FY 1979 had markedly decreased user confidence in the system. A "catastrophic" equipment failure occurred in July 1979 while the 33d Tank Battalion was firing conventional ammunition in Germany. A valve block assembly of the tank was blown against the rear breech housing, causing the housing to fall inside the turret, breaking the tank commander's leg. The battalion also reported numerous other equipment failures involving both the tank and the missile during this gunnery program. The 3d Division Commander reported that frustration over the frequent failure of the missile system to hold a "ready" or "go" condition from checkout to firing, sometimes for several minutes duration, was the greatest deterrent to crew confidence in and proficiency with the SHILLELAGH.

In view of the prevailing hardware deficiencies and other difficulties, such as a continuing shortage of skilled M60A2 turret mechanics, USAREUR and DA investigated ways to resolve the problem of unsatisfactory performance of the M60A2 tank. The alternative selected was early replacement of the tank. In May 1980, DA decided to accelerate the phaseout of the 540 M60A2 tanks in the active Army inventory. At that time, the Army had two M60A2-equipped battalions in USAREUR (1st Armored Division and 3d Infantry Division) and one in CONUS. In the phaseout, completed in FY 1981, the turrets on the M60A2 tanks were replaced with M48A5 turrets, which had conventional tank cannons. The SHILLELAGH missiles were returned to the Anniston Army Depot for storage." (History of the Shillelagh Missile System 1958-1982, pp.103-105)

Another paragraph that is related to the phaseout:

"Early in 1978, when worldwide deployment reached its peak, there were 1,570 SHERIDAN/SHILLELAGH systems in service, over half of which were assigned to armored cavalry units in Germany. A total of 540 M60/SHILLELAGH systems had also been deployed beginning early in 1975, the bulk of them in Europe. In February 1978, the Army decided to replace the SHERIDAN vehicles in nearly all armored cavalry units with the improved M60 series main battle tanks armed only with conventional guns. Primarily because of turret and other hardware deficiencies in the M60A2 tank, the Army then decided in February 1980 to phase out that model from the Army inventory. By FY 1982, there were no M60/SHILLELAGH systems in service and only a residual fleet of 140 SHERIDAN/SHILLELAGH systems remained in the inventory." (ibid., p.118)

Regarding the 3d Infantry Division's distribution of M60A2s, this page https://www.usarmygermany.com/Sont.htm? ... iv%203.htm confirms that 4th Bn, 64th Armor, 3d Brigade got their company of M60A2s in 1977, which corroborates the Sabot Publications source. This means that the 3rd Bn, 63rd Armor, which the linked page says joined the 3d Infantry Division during winter 1976-77 (see Augsburg Scene article towards the bottom of the page), probably did not get any M60A2s, possibly due to its remote location compared to the other battalions.

[panzergator]

Johnnisch Government,

As a former "Starship Trooper," (nah - never heard that name on active service) I really appreciate the info you provided. It was very interesting to see the overall picture. After leaving the A2 unit, I was much too busy and really in no position to follow the fate of the A2. I understand the A2s were replaced early by M60A3s.

Thank you again for your contribution. I'm always interested in tanks, especially US Cold War tanks.

Pzgtr.