ACR thread, as suggested by Redleg

MechCommander · Post by **MechCommander** » Mon Sep 17, 2018 4:53 am

Redleg the Canadians have whats known as the Royal Canadian Armored Corps.

redleg · Post by **redleg** » Thu Sep 20, 2018 9:05 am

I'm working on B Troop now, but school is getting in the way!

Question for the cav folk: for the tank companies in the ACR, is the guidon the standard cavalry red/white guidon or is it the yellow armor guidon like tank companies in an armor battalion? I decided that I need some guidons for my guys!

Thanks,

-Mike

panzergator · Post by **panzergator** » Thu Sep 20, 2018 11:49 am

Deleted repeat entry

panzergator · Post by **panzergator** » Thu Sep 20, 2018 11:49 am

According to a friend who served in 2/11 in the late 70s, both tank company and how battery had two guidons, one their branch color (yellow for tank, red for arty) and a squadron guidon in red over white. Regimental would occasionally tell them to use their red and white guidon and tanks and arty would ignore them. By the way, the tank company got a troop letter - D, H, or M, depending on first, second, or third squadron, but the howitzer batteries did not. The letter J was not used as a troop letter because it could too easily be confused with I troop. The tanks were a "company," not a troop. The tank company guidon listed it's letter on bottom and regimental number on top. The arty's said "HOW" in bottom and regimental number on the bottom.

I evaluated a tank company from 2nd ACT on REFORGER in '75. It was quite an experience and different from a divisional unit. Breakfast usually caught up with us at 1400. The eggs were pretty green by then.

panzergator · Post by **panzergator** » Thu Sep 20, 2018 11:49 am

Deleted repeat entry.

panzergator · Post by **panzergator** » Thu Sep 20, 2018 12:14 pm

Much of the confusion stems from the fact that Cavalry, as a branch, was deactivated (I think in 1950) and folded into Armor. From that point, Cavalry was an unofficial subset of Armor Branch and Cavalry officers were Armor officers first. All went to Armor School and Cavalry operations were taught to all of us during both the basic and advanced Armor courses. There are Cavalry MOSs for enlisted men and Cavalry specialties for Armor offucers. While 14th ACR was on the German border, they transitioned from being called battalions and companies to squadrons and troops. The terms "troop"/"squadron" and "company"/ "battalion" have been flip-flopped several times during the history of the US Army. There are a couple pics on the internet of a 14th ACR unit with its Armor yellow and green company guidon, with armor insignia. My best friend from college had pretty much the same background as did I. We went into the Army at the same time, and had similar assignments at Fort Knox. When we were sent from Ft. Knox to Germany within a couple months of each other, I went to a tank platoon in a tank battalion and he went to a platoon in 11th ACR. No difference in training until one got to a unit. And helicopter pilot officers in the Army at that time, before Aviation Branch, we're all either Armor officers or Transportation officers. For those interested in a little bit of history.

And if you think government shutdown, there was also a year in t he 1880s when Congress failed to appropriate any money to pay the Army...

panzergator · Post by **panzergator** » Thu Sep 20, 2018 8:13 pm

Error.

Regiment on top. Troop letter on bottom. HHT for Headquarters and Headquarters Troop.

HOW for Howitzer Battery.

When the squadron number is carried, it is close to the hoist, centered vertically.

redleg · Post by **redleg** » Fri Sep 21, 2018 4:27 am

Thanks for the info, PG! That's good stuff. I liked to remind the cavalry guys that they were actually armor branch when I was in and they always seemed a little hurt. I always refused to remove the cannon from my collar and out the sabers on when I was in the BRT. I suspect that if I had been in an ACR or a DIVCAV squadron I wouldn't have had a choice.

I didn't know about the helicopter pilot branch thing - that's interesting as hell!

panzergator · Post by **panzergator** » Fri Sep 21, 2018 5:24 am

Yes. I knew Armor officers who branch transferred to get a better chance at promotion who still wore their tankers' boots and Armor Branch insignia. It was hard to give up that identity. Hell, I wear a hat with "ARMOR" across the front and a big armor insignia embroidered across the front. Today's US Army officers do not wear branch insignia except in dress blues. If they bring back links n greens they will wear them on thise, too. But nothing on battle dress, or whatever it's called these days. My hat starts a lot of conversations with fellow tankers from different eras, which I enjoy immensely.

I don't believe the Arty boys changed branch insignia when in the Cav. I don't know what the tank company guys did, but they wore the black berets...

Get yourself an arty hat. Meet old comrades ya never knew ya had. I miss the old black boot Army (lol).

panzergator · Post by **panzergator** » Fri Sep 21, 2018 6:04 am

Forgot. It is getting harder and harder to cl in up into my Smithsonian attic memory and find things...

Helo pilots were also branched Arty.

redleg · Post by **redleg** » Fri Sep 21, 2018 7:47 am

I do the same thing â€“ I have a Field Artillery hat with big crossed cannons, and a 1st ID hat with e Big Red One, and a hat with a CAB. They start a lot of conversations, and much to my wifeâ€™s chagrin I am always shopping for a new hat every time I visit the VA hospital! My goal is to be one of those crusty old grumpy vets that hang out at the VA complaining about the kids these days and their sagging pants! Iâ€™ve been practicing: â€œget off my lawn Aâ€”hole!â€

Back in 1999-2001 a lot of the cav units that I was around required all of the officers to wear the crossed sabers on their uniforms regardless of their original branch. That rubbed some people the wrong way, but I noticed that a lot of the support and CSS guys liked having cav insignia rather than their real branch. The BRT commander tried to do it too (MI captain) but he didnâ€™t have enough rank to force it. Then of course the Army adopted the black beret for everyone and that REALLY rubbed everyone the wrong way!

panzergator · Post by **panzergator** » Fri Sep 21, 2018 8:02 am

I have a black and gold Third Armored Division hat featuring a big yellow Armor insignia hanging off the side, but I generally go with the stealthy OD Armor hat.

I STILL disagree with adoption of the beret. For PETE'S SAKE! We adopted the headgear of Satan Hussein! And we now look like half the world! Why not go back to the campaign hat. But I LIKED the service cap and overseas cap. AND WE SHOULD GO BACK TO WORK THEM. Too many people do not know how to wear a beret and they look like saggy mushrooms.

Making folks wear branch insignia not their own seems ridiculous. I wouldn't have done it.

panzergator · Post by **panzergator** » Fri Sep 21, 2018 8:04 am

Imagine how the Rangers felt!

panzergator · Post by **panzergator** » Fri Sep 21, 2018 8:05 am

Imagine how the Rangers felt!

redleg · Post by **redleg** » Fri Nov 09, 2018 3:13 am

1st Squadron / 9th ACR is in the field this week for gunnery. Tanks and Bradleys are qualifying up through table VIII. Pictured here is the C Troop assembly area between training cycles. The brads are shifting to cover the perimeter as the tanks pull out for tables VII and VIII. Cherokee 6 (troop commander) is leading the tank platoons to the range.

All 3 troops and the tank company are complete. Iâ€™m working on the how battery right now and still debating how much of the HHT Iâ€™m going to do in real pewter.