Pop quiz

[chrisswim]

Arrrrgh, Jim, those are tough!
Happy Easter! He has risen.

[mike robel]

This battle occurred the same decade as Little Bighorn. The odds in favor of the natives were SO much better than even the Cheyenne had. The rifles used by the invader were much better than those used by the 7th Cavalry. The invader was in a vulnerable position and was completely overwhelmed by the native forces. What was the battle, who were the opponents, what was the date?

Isandwana between the British 24th Regiment of Foot and the Zulu nation. 22 January 1879.

What was in common between Isandlwana and the Little Bighorn was the European/American troops hubris "Natives could never defeat us" and the destroyed units were pretty much caught in the open without any field fortifications. At the Reno/Benteen position and at Rorke's Drift, the defenders had at least some field positions. Better for the British than the Americans. Chelmsford, like Custer, decided he didn't want his Gatling guns at that point. Later he used them.

Of course, also helping Reno/Benteen was the Indians flocking toward Custer nearer the village and the next day the approach of Terry with his column coming up the Little Bighorn.

I sometimes wonder if even a small difference would have been apparent if the US troops had bayonets? It didn't make any difference at Isandlwana, but it did at Rorke's Drift.

Also what would have happened if John Buford or Emory Upton had been in command of the 7th? I think the movement to contact would have been markedly different, but if the 7th was caught in the open, the same result would be most likely.

[panzergator]

Mmmm, yep. isandlwhana is correct, although the forum autocorrect keeps changing it to "handlebars," but what does it know?

Chelmsford split his force, too, but went with the roving contingent and survived. Custer was attempting something similar to what he did at Washita - draw the warriors off, round up the women and children, thus motivating the warriors to come along peacefully. It was a near thing, as Joel Elliott and 30 or so troopers found out. But the village on the Little Big Horn was much bigger than at Washita. There were enough warriors to fight at both ends. And as you know, I think Custer was the officer hit at the ford at the foot of Medicine Tail Coulee, inducing a withdrawal to Last Stand Hill. Native American testimony claims a leader was hit there, Custer had a wound in his side, and a number of officers were gathered at the hill who should have been with their companies. Speculation, of course.I

At Isandlwhana, it was 20,000 Zulus against 1800 British, a much larger action.

As for a different commander of the 7th Cavalry, it is difficult to say. You don't command cavalry if you are timid or plodding, not will you catch any Indians. Crook list several days earlier and withdrew to his supply base. Custer was offered several companies of the 2nd Cavalry, which might have given him an option or two - they would likely have been assigned to guarding 're pack train or to "constantly feeling to the left" in place of Benteen, giving Custer a couple more of 7th's companies to work with. But what are the options for eating that elephant other than what he did? Fall in behind the Sioux and Cheyenne, herding them north into Terry's blocking position to squeeze them into submission, as Terry intended? Might have worked. But the Sioux/Cheyenne were of a mind to fight, having just stopped Crook and gotten Sitting Bull's prophecy. Custer didn't know either of those facts, of course, but his plan may have been the only practical one and, had it succeeded, might have accomplished the mission with the least loss in life.

And we have turned a discussion of Isandlwhana into one of the Little Bighorn...

How about the other two questions? Anyone take a shot?

[Cav Dog]

Early M60s had five return rollers, later models had three.

[panzergator]

Cav dog, that was M48. M60 series was designed with only 3 support rollers from the beginning.

[Cav Dog]

I figured out I was looking at a mislabeled picture.

The later M60s had an additional shock absorber mounted on the second road wheel.

[panzergator]

Cav Dog gets a "A!". That is correct.

[redleg]

Number of shock absorbers????? You guys are so out of my league! I'm learning so much on this thread though!

[panzergator]

We have Smihsonian attic minds. We collect useless, esoteric facts so they won't bother other people.

[panzergator]

Deleted the one about the fire extinguisher.

How many mortars are there in an H series mech infantry battalion?

[panzergator]

Well, I thought the mortar question was a gimme. We will leave it open and take a nautical turn. Several questions...

What was the USS Langley converted from?

What type vessel evacuated MacArthur from Bataan? Who commanded that flotilla?

What was the original purpose of the hulls of the WWII-era aircraft carriers Lexington and Saratoga and why were they built as carriers?

Where is the cruiser USS Astoria (CA34)?

Which battleship had to sail around the tip of South America to get from the west coast to the east coast of the US at the outbreak of hostilities. Why that route?

Who wrote "The Influence of Sea Power Upon History?"

When sunk, the USS Indianapolis was returning from delivering something. What was it?

What happened to USS Liberty?

Who sent out the Great White Fleet?

The USS Monitor and the CSS Viginia battled at Hampton Roads, but the battle is often referred to as being between "the Monitor and the Merrimack." Why?

Which side fired the first shot in the war between he US and Japan?

What type of plane was Ensign George Gay flying when he became the sole survivor of his squadron's attack on a Japanese fleet?

[Guroburov]

MacArthur was evacuated aboard a submarine (with $5 million in gold)
Lexington and Saratoga were laid down as cruisers but converted to carriers after the naval treaty limited the size of cruisers and battleships.
A.T. Mahan wrote the Influence of Sea Power Upon History
USS Indianapolis just delivered the bomb (Ty Quint from Jaws)
Wasn't the Great White Fleet sent out to Teddy Roosevelt? (Fun? fact: the day the fleet cleared New York Harbor the fleet chaplain commited suicide)
CSS Virginia originally USS Merrimack but was beached and burned and then rebuilt as the Virginia

[panzergator]

Guroborov,

1. Mac was not evacuated by submarine.

2. Lex and Sara were not laid down as cruisers. The Washington Naval Treaty was involved. It was a matter of capital ship tonnage, not the size of the individual ships.

3. Mahan is correct.

4. What bomb?

5. TR did send 'em. He only had the money to get 'em out. Congress had to appropriate more money to get 'em back.

6. Merrimack was burned to the waterline and used as the foundation for Virginia.

What about the other questions?

[Cav Dog]

Oh man, the fire extinguisher one was easy - in case it catches fire duh.

or it could some arcane DA directive in place because once some dummy mechanic didn't properly torque a fuel line fitting and when they tried to start it a fire broke out. Although actually it wasn't fuel, it was hydraulic fluid. Back then hydraulic fluid was extremely flammable, something our friends the Israelis pointed out in the 73 war when M60s were hit and although the tank was not critically hit, if a hydraulic line leaked or was ruptured, the hydraulic fluid would catch fire and the tank would catastrophically burn and was a total loss. Needless to say this made the Israelis very unhappy because they didn't have enough tanks to go around and even though they excelled at battlefield recovery and repair, once a tank burns like that it is write off.

We quickly developed less flammable hydraulic fluid.

[chrisswim]

1. Mac was on one of four PT boats, including his wife and son. Some silver was dumped into a well, or hole underwater to prevent the Japanese from finding it.
2. Laid down as BB.

USS Indianapolis, had delivered the atomic bomb, since their trip was secret, no one know to look for the ship, thus the crew.

First shot in WW2 with Japan and the AUS, was by the US, at a midget sub.

George Gay was flying a Douglas TBD Devastator that was shoot down.