Hey guys, I’m looking for some insight into how units were deployed / arranged / managed during the Cold War (like 1980s time frame). We’ve got a cold war scenario going in the imagi-nations world and I’m trying to figure out how is went down in the real world. Jim, Mike, Pete and anyone else who was there or who knows about this type of historical detail, please share your wisdom with me!
So I’ve found maps like this that show the NATO defense in West Germany down to the corps level, but I’m having trouble finding info on division or brigade level operations. What I’m trying to figure out is did the divisions and brigades have specific sectors that they owned and did they rotate those zones or their missions?
Would a division commander have some units deployed to the border (or some type of active patrolling or defensive position) while others were in a reserve status and others were training or doing garrison activities? Would a division hand responsibility for their zone over to another division at some point and become the “reserve division” for lack of better term? I’m not sure what a division or brigade alert/training/garrison cycle looked like in West Germany.
The BEST guy I know for this is Mike Robel, who even has a board game for the covering force portion of the general defense plan. Doctrine says, at all levels, IDEALLY, its two up, one back. Two platoons on line, one held back. Two companies on line, one held back. WEtc. It works differently on the ground because you have to defend your sector.
The covering force of V Corps was 11th ACR, but 11th was reinforced with, among other units, my M60A2 platoon, to the point that the 11th ACR commander had a division. The ACR's mission was to delay the Russian advance long enough for everyone else to bomb up, gwt to the initial defense positions and prepare to meet the enemy. When the covering force was released, it would conduct a passage of lines, handing the battle off to the divisions, brigades, battalions, companies, and platoons in the main battle area. Returning units remaining, if combat effective, would take up assigned battle positions or proceed to assembly areas to be reconatituted and reorganized, and reassigned.
Out of reflex and force of habit, I never discussed unit dispositions, so now I can only remember my initial platoon battle position (where I expected to die, anyway) in 3AD and my battalion trains positions in 8ID.
Each corps (V and VII), in the late 70s, had two divisions - 3AD and 8ID in the Vth and 3ID and 1st AD in 7th, plus reinforcing brigades from 2nd AD, 4thID, and 1st ID. Each corps also had an ACR (11th in Vth and 2nd in VII) and corps assets such as arty, aviation, ADA, etc to add to the fight. The Fulda Gap was only so wide and, as thickly as we manned the line, we had to defend in depth, too. And the REFORGER guys were a long way off, tryibg to fly and float through waves of submarines and clouds of Blinders and such, interdicting the flow of reinforcements. No M1s yet, so it was still "active defense," not yet AirLand Battle. The AirLand Battle was a real shocker for the Rooskis and a gamechanger for us.
In the 80s, things changed a bit. I'm handing off to Mike or someone else with more complete knowledge of those years. I was buried at Fort Polk by then and, mercifully, was not present to see my beloved 3AD units redesignated out of existence.
Figure out your frontage, then your corps sectors. Once you have that, look at youe troops available, the frontage your unit types can cover, parcel em out, and see what you can fit in and what you have left for depth. Your sectors may differ. Do not just plan to defend.
All blessings flow from a good mission statement.
Pogo was right. So was Ike.
"A Gentleman is a man who is only rude intentionally." (Churchill)
Give credit. Take responsibility.
“The BEST guy I know for this is Mike Robel, who even has a board game for the covering force portion of the general defense plan. Doctrine says, at all levels, IDEALLY, its two up, one back. Two platoons on line, one held back. Two companies on line, one held back. WEtc. It works differently on the ground because you have to defend your sector.
The covering force of V Corps was 11th ACR, but 11th was reinforced with, among other units, my M60A2 platoon, to the point that the 11th ACR commander had a division. The ACR's mission was to delay the Russian advance long enough for everyone else to bomb up, gwt to the initial defense positions and prepare to meet the enemy. When the covering force was released, it would conduct a passage of lines, handing the battle off to the divisions, brigades, battalions, companies, and platoons in the main battle area. Returning units remaining, if combat effective, would take up assigned battle positions or proceed to assembly areas to be reconatituted and reorganized, and reassigned.
Out of reflex and force of habit, I never discussed unit dispositions, so now I can only remember my initial platoon battle position (where I expected to die, anyway) in 3AD and my battalion trains positions in 8ID.
Each corps (V and VII), in the late 70s, had two divisions - 3AD and 8ID in the Vth and 3ID and 1st AD in 7th, plus reinforcing brigades from 2nd AD, 4thID, and 1st ID. Each corps also had an ACR (11th in Vth and 2nd in VII) and corps assets such as arty, aviation, ADA, etc to add to the fight. The Fulda Gap was only so wide and, as thickly as we manned the line, we had to defend in depth, too. And the REFORGER guys were a long way off, tryibg to fly and float through waves of submarines and clouds of Blinders and such, interdicting the flow of reinforcements. No M1s yet, so it was still "active defense," not yet AirLand Battle. The AirLand Battle was a real shocker for the Rooskis and a gamechanger for us.
In the 80s, things changed a bit. I'm handing off to Mike or someone else with more complete knowledge of those years. I was buried at Fort Polk by then and, mercifully, was not present to see my beloved 3AD units redesignated out of existence.
Figure out your frontage, then your corps sectors. Once you have that, look at youe troops available, the frontage your unit types can cover, parcel em out, and see what you can fit in and what you have left for depth. Your sectors may differ. Do not just plan to defend.”
Ralph Peters also wrote one that tells the story from the Russian side, "Red Army," and there is one called "Red Thrust," whose author I couldn't see from the distance to my basenent bookshelf. Hackett alsi wrote one re. The story behind "The Third World War.". All excellent. There is also " Team Yankee," of course. I didn't think that was particularly good, although widely acclaimed.
These are more '70s era books that don't consider much AirLand Battle doctrine and equipment, if I recall correctly.
All blessings flow from a good mission statement.
Pogo was right. So was Ike.
"A Gentleman is a man who is only rude intentionally." (Churchill)
Give credit. Take responsibility.
I recommend Certain Victory by Gen Robert Scales and Crusade by Rick Atkinson. They focus on ODS where Gen. Schwartzkopf applied Airland Battle doctrine practically to perfection. Granted, the Iraqis were about as inept strategically, operationally and tactically as you could get, but given the overwhelming combat power they faced, it is no surprise.
I think the Soviets and their Warsaw Pact allies would acquit themselves a little better. I think the early Desert a storm phase of the battle is more what you are looking for since the coalition was in more of a defensive posture.
Tactics are the opinion of the senior officer present.
Thanks for the info guys! I haven't read any of those books - I will definitely look them up. And I would be very interested to see how the Canadians handled the issue, Cama. In the imagi-nation scenario, a division will be responsible for a portion of the border with a frontage of about 50 miles. My first thought was to do like PG mentioned and position two brigades forward along the border and one brigade further to the rear. I'm having second thoughts though - do I need to rethink that concept if the division will be in that same position for months or years? I'm wondering if it's better to keep the units in place and let them become uber-familiar with the terrain and the people in their sector, or if it's better to have them rotate on a regular basis so that they stay sharp.
First Clash by Kenneth Macksey is the classic read of a Canadian Batlegroup defending against a hypothetical WP assault. Can't recommend it highly enough as it goes into great detail of how and why the OC made the decisions he did.
Tactics are the opinion of the senior officer present.
+1 for First Clash
I think it is just what you are looking for
For the big picture Armies of NATO’s Central Front by David Isby
Good luck finding a copy, but maybe inter library loan can get you a copy
Let's be clear. Two up, one back is the "school solution." In reality, in 3AD, my battalion, from the "one back" 3rd BDE, 3AD, was used forward to thicken the COVERING FORCE. There are many factors that determine how you array your forces. The "school solution" does not necessarily apply, although it may serve as a good starting point. At battalion level, your "one back" may be a rump mech company HQ with 2 platoons, the AT section, and the 81mm mortars (H series), the other platoon having been cross-attached to a tank company or sent to another mech company.
All blessings flow from a good mission statement.
Pogo was right. So was Ike.
"A Gentleman is a man who is only rude intentionally." (Churchill)
Give credit. Take responsibility.
First
Steven Zaloga authored “Red Thrust”.
I’m old so bear with me. Reforger with 1st Cav.
Landed in Iirc Holland not far from the historic Market Garden battlefields.
Borded trains to Germany to POMCUS site issued equipment and road marched to assembly area to await Exercise release to cross SP.
drove for hours to that AA , the Jeep I drove there wasn’t even mine.
Joined up with my General support Artillery Bn M109’s
About 4 hours from start of exercise was captured by Dutch who refused to repatriate me until exercise was over. They didn’t have a medic and their SGTmaj was the only long service NCO in his unit and hated conscripts. Funny he said he new I was a professional soldier like him because my name tag was embroidered and only professional soldiers in the Dutch army where allowed to get embroidered name tags. So for the entire exercise all I did was drive around in the BN Mobile PX truck with sgtmaj drink coke, hot chocolate and play cards, drink schnapps and eat at guest houses on the Dutch Governments dime.
every man for all mens rights
all men for every mans rights
I remember the Dutch had instituted some very liberal policies for their services in the '70s. When they were implemented, you could hardly call it an army. I saw a few in their wheeled APCs sitting on the side of the road during REFORGER in '75. Good for nothing at all. Sounds like YOU had a good time, though.
Thanks for filling Zaloga. I have a bunch of boxes piked in front of my bookshelves at the moment and just had a shot in my good eye, so I can't see two feet.
All blessings flow from a good mission statement.
Pogo was right. So was Ike.
"A Gentleman is a man who is only rude intentionally." (Churchill)
Give credit. Take responsibility.
