AN OPEN VOTE ON THE FUTURE OF KARMANASKIS

[7.62]

YOUR CHANCE TO VOTE ON THE FUTURE OF KARMANASKIS



So I am going to spend a bit more time with Micro Armour this year and intend to get more painting done and units rounded out (said that before). Hopefully photos and discussion will increase.

Karmanaskis is an Imagi-Nation set in the area of Western Canada on the Pacific. To the South is RPNW, to the North and East is New Canada. It is intended to be a peaceful and prosperous Nation that never sees a war gaming table. War being the physical proof of failed diplomacy, foreign policy and leadership. However it must be resilient enough to fend off ANY other Imagi-Nation.

I have been playing with two different force structures and I really need to settle on just one! There are so many great models now available we are spoiled for choice. I intend to expand the Karmanaskis military overall but limit it by type and orientation. It seems the best way to do this is to look either East or West rather than just cherry picking the best equipment. Seems more realistic to me.
The more I thought about this, the more I liked the chaos theory of random chance. Hence the vote.

Karma is a democracy (at the moment) and so I will put it to an open vote here on the forum, anyone can chip in so no need for just Imagi-nations etc. Anyone with a username here even GHQ

1. Vote EAST (not hard and fast but mostly China).

or

2. Vote WEST (not hard and fast but mostly a Canadian maple flavor on steroids, not much US since there is so much already out there).


Make your vote count, or sell it, spoil it, I will honer the vote, will check the count (by username) here on Monday at noon MST.
Let the games begin

[redleg]

My initial reaction was to say go West if you want to be able to fend off other imagi-nations because there seem to be a lot of Abrams running around the imagi-nation world! Some really great artillery too!

On the other hand, if you look East, you can build a pretty formidable force with what China and South Korea are making!

I guess that doesn’t really help you does it? I want to rock the vote though, so I am voting for WEST!

[7.62]

And we're off to the races......1 for the West.

Just to be clear I am thinking more along political lines for equipment.
So West would cover the likes of South Korea.
East would cover North Korean, Chinese and Russian kit.
There are enough goodies on both sides to keep me happy whichever way it goes.

[chrisswim]

May I suggest a question on Strategy. Is Karmanaskis planning to be nice and allies to its neighbors or somewhat caustic? If you use the eastern kit, be more caustic. Western more aligned politically. You can have a country to be adversary of others, somewhat like ROD came up with EE. A guy named Paul had used Putinville to also serve as the enemy. I like Evil Empire as we can easily use EE. ROD also set up near India an ally and axis force or opfor. An opponent could be in Africa, Middle East, Asia and/or South America. You still are in control of Yer Bouti and the Shake/Shiek/Shek Yer Bouti. I will say that you and Cama were the best picking on each other. Really enjoyable to read and laugh 'with'.
Karmanaskis isn't going to invade NC (or the other country/group)., Guess not going to go after Eski or Graham. Not going to invade PRNW, I do not think. The only one to be able to give ground.
Now as for the kit to use. I like your Chinese kit, but whether you kit it for KDF or another it is a good assortment.
So keep the the Chinese kit or the East equipment, move it for other countries in different place(s). If you do that, go West in KDF. IMHO, that may offer some advantages to you and others.

[7.62]

May I suggest a question on Strategy. Is Karmanaskis planning to be nice and allies to its neighbors or somewhat caustic? If you use the eastern kit, be more caustic. Western more aligned politically. You can have a country to be adversary of others, somewhat like ROD came up with EE.

Chris, the equipment choice will not effect policy and the policy choice will not effect the equipment. I will do what Karma wants with either set up.
I plan on not picking a direct fight with any Country. However I will build Karma up to be immune to the misguided adventures of any Nation or Dom's. I will treat others as they treat Karmanaskis.
There may be allies, there maybe not. I am still on good terms with Yerbouti and have plans for them later too!

Vote for what is best for your collection of minions.... er I mean Dominions lol.

[panzergator]

How much money do you want to spend?

If you go East, you will be relying on numbers. The East DEPENDS on numbers and they spend their money on numbers rather than training.

If you go West, you will have better equipment, but fewer numbers. If you train hard, well, and effectively, AND FIGHT THAT WAY, you can still be successful. You must keep in mind that your logistics will be extremely important and prep manufacturing is critical, because in a PROTRACTED war, either your economy or their numbers will carry the day. You must be strategically, operationally, and tactically smart. You can't just drive a belly a lot of vehicles around a training area for cameras and call it training, like the Russians.

I would go West. But you may want a BIG army. Where are ya gonna park it, though?

[7.62]

Panzergator, how are you doing sir?
As always I value the opinions and views of the Gator state. We only ask that you cast a vote the way you wish.
Karmanaskis is confident it can work with either outcome. It does not need to conquer the World but it will be able to deter anyone.
I want people to vote as they please, not just to please me.
Cheers,
Mick.

[Brigade Commander]

To be upfront I have not paid attention to the imagi-nations but when I saw the title of your thread it got me to thinking. So to put a question to you - How big is Karmanaskis. By big I do not mean just in land area but also population and industrial base. Whatever you select, and how much, you are going to need to staff it. Keep in mind that as large as the US, well not just the US but all militaries, were during WWII all of them were continually understaffed and struggling. Sometimes dangerously short. Same way during the Korean War. Not just in Korea but worldwide. And we did not attempt the presence that we were later in to the Cold War. Look what Vietnam did to the Army worldwide. Even the expected doomsday flashpoint of Germany were chronically short both personnel and equipment. There were studies that hinted that the Soviet Union could not maintain the personnel level and they were under a dictatorship. Because you still have to maintain the civilian sector. If you are not large then a single brigade, even with mandatory conscription, may be a challenge to maintain personnel levels for.

Also whatever direction you pick you tie yourself to it. Ask post-Shah Iran. Trying to maintain equipment without spare parts. Or maintaining them with second-hand parts from wherever around the world. Usually already well used because whoever was selling them to you was also on the embargoed list. Go with Chinese equipment and you do not have freedom of reaction vis-a-vis their actions or you lose new / used vehicles, parts, service and technical support. Plus it shapes the perception of your neighbors. If you are West-leaning how about all tanks are Leopard 2s. All infantry carriers are French. Maybe all artillery is British. Pick a European company for all of your supply trucks of all sizes and all jeep/HMMWV type crew vehicles are another company. Pick a Scandinavian company source for a particular vehicle type. All of a particular vehicle type will be single-sourced which will ease Logistics.

All of the above depends on how realistic you want to be. But you can make the challenges entertaining. Want to roll a company or a full battalion out on maneuvers? Roll a die and see if all of the companies are able to make full deployment. Or are a platoon or two in the battalion short a carrier for lack of personnel? Or is a battery short a SPH due to parts shortage slow in arriving from overseas? Hard enough when you make everything within your own borders. Try doing it when everything comes from overseas. I am sure everyone who served on this forum can attest to less than 100% readiness at least once.

Just some random thoughts. Remember, when all else fails, just have fun.

[Hoth_902]

I would go east with a smattering of west. You could think out side the box and train your troops like western troops with mostly eastern equipment. That is what I would do.

[7.62]

Brigade Commander,
Thank you for your in depth and well thought out reply, I agree with you on many points. It is not all about numbers, latest and greatest, populations, economy, land area etc. Things are not always what they seem.
In the middle of the cold war I had the pleasure of visiting a squadron of the RTR (2?) on Fallingbostel around 1980. I even got to drive a Chieftain around in the mud. The thing that always stuck with me was a talk with a MT Sgt later that day over a beer (or two).
If the balloon went up next day, his job was to spike/destroy the 40-50% of the Squadron's tanks that were unusable. There is often a bigger picture with many moving parts to consider.

That said this is Imagi-Nations after all so there is a margin of artist license more than any mirror of a Countries TOE. I intend to reach the same aims with either Western or Eastern equipment and will adjust as necessary to fill the shortfalls.
Redleg is a super power with a Californian sized Country having many CBG, Mech holds a huge area with very slim forces, Chris has half of the World by controlling many smaller "Doms".
War gaming is working out what we do not know!

Please feel free to vote the way you wish, I will deal with the results. I hope my solutions may surprise and foster discussion and or ridicule.
And most of all, just have fun.

[7.62]

I would go east with a smattering of west. You could think out side the box and train your troops like western troops with mostly eastern equipment. That is what I would do.

Thanks Hoth,
Either way there is going to be some out of the box thinking coming up.
I will take that as a vote for the East.
Cheers.

PS. Your choice also makes sense as a bordering Country.

[chrisswim]

EAST! No, WEST!

Ahhhhh S.h.i.t. Die roll. coin flip. Rock, paper, scissors.

West! No, east..

East. Just cuss I like the different type of stuff.
If you go West, you can go east for territory.

East.

[Splod]

I vote east, but make it special rather than just off the shelf. Maybe they've turned to purchasing old CM-11 or M60A3TTS 120mm from Taiwan? Or my personal favourite, Russian kit purchased off India or Pakistan. They can be upgraded to western standards or re-armed/engined prior to delivery in location, and you're not relying on China or Russia to supply the kit.

I've got an Imagi-Nation that captured significant numbers of Soviet era armour from the Middle East in the 1970s and 1980s. They upgunned the armour to NATO standard using existing weapons contracts with the French, and cancelled tenders with the US to repalce their existing MBT fleet. The US was mildly put-out by the tender cancellation, and subsequently refused to engage further. My Imagi-Nation, the DST< then turned to India to provide spare parts and even replacement hulls. Thus, my Middle Eastern Imagi-Nation went from being Western equipped to Eastern equipped.

[MechCommander]

Its a reason why i formed my multi-national organization, the Pan Oceanic Pact. Its a way to make up for the NCAF having a slim force, by getting military assistance from other member countries. and the other member nations TO&Es are based off some examples from WW2 but with a modern spin to them in terms of equipment..

The Outboard Islands uses the Soviet Red Army's structure
and the Feline Confederation uses the 1939 German military structure.
i got a fourth member nation in progress that uses the Kingdom of Italy's TO&E which was honestly quite a pain to find.

[7.62]

Splod thanks for that, East it is for you.
I also agree with you on a little mix and match. My aim is to have the major flavor of one sphere but if there is something I really want it will make it in there. Many smaller Nations do have that one bit of equipment that goes against the grain. I feel in the real World, competition specs and evaluation testing come second to big envelops full of cash. This goes for some bigger Counties too
We need to see more of your Nation Splod.

Chris long live the King, another for the East.

Panzergator is West I believe (If the vote goes East I will be going for mass in some areas).

Mech, yet to vote, what do you want on your Southern border?

Brigade Commander yet to vote.