USN28 CA Northampton vs. USN84 CA Houston?

[ww2navyguy]

Had a question about what are the main differences between the GHQ model for USN28 CA-26 Northampton and the GHQ model for USN84 CA-30 Houston? Both descriptions say they are for 1942 versions of this ship class. The description for USN84 CA-30 Houston says she was fitted out as a flagship. Would the main difference be a larger superstructure from others in this class? Is the Houston model more "correct" for certain ships in this heavy cruiser class, while the Northampton model is better representation for the remaining ships in this heavy cruiser class? I can't really see the main differences looking at the pictures of each model on the GHQ listings. Thanks for any help.

[Mickel]

The Houston model has the extended forecastle, which can be seen under the forward funnel. According to Conways, Chicago and Augusta were the same.

The Northampton model has the big CXAM air search radar array atop the mast. Chicago and Chester were the others with the CXAM. If you we're going to use this one for Louisville after her May 1942 refit, I'd whack off most of the CXAM, but leave a strip of the base to represent the later SC radar.

[ww2navyguy]

Thanks, Mickel. So, it sounds like the GHQ kit for CA Houson is only suitable for Houston, unless modifications to the radar system array on top of mast is added.

Bummer. I guess no perfect GHQ model for the other ships in the Northampton class outside of Houston and Northampton without some type of modifications.

Thanks again for your reply to my question.

[Mickel]

Looks like Houston would be ok for Augusta and Northampton for Chester.

[ww2navyguy]

Thanks Mickel. Would you use the Houston model for Chicago, too?

[Donald M Scheef]

WWII USA Cruisers that I would like to see GHQ produce
Most of the cruisers completed pre-war had numerous modifications, especially to the medium anti-aircraft armament. Because of this, I am outlining various updates to these ships.
Pensacola-class: USS Pensacola, CA-24 and USS Salt Lake City, CA-25
• As built (about 1930): Large tripod forward mast with very large spotting position, tripod main mast, all main gun mounts had range finder “ears” on the sides, 4x1 5”/25 anti-aircraft guns around aft funnel with no shielding, 2x3 21” TT, essentially no medium or light anti-aircraft armament. This version would be appropriate for Bywater’s Great Pacific War
• Mid-1930s: Large spotting position on forward mast replaced by smaller fire control position, 4x1 5”/25 anti-aircraft guns added around bridge structure and some 0.50-inch anti-aircraft guns added, TT removed.
• Early-war (1940 to mid-1942): Mainmast reduced in height. Two, later four, quad 1.1-inch mounts added (two on bridge wings, two at the stern. 0.50-inch guns replaced with (initially eight, later more) 20mm. Splinter shielding “tubs” provided for anti-aircraft guns. This is the appearance at the time of the Battle of Midway.
• Mid-war (late 1942 early 1943): 1.1-inch mounts replaced by quad 40mm mounts and two more 40mm mounts added on hanger roof. By this time, the location of the former torpedo tubes had been plated over. This is the appearance modeled by GHQ’s USN40, CA Salt Lake City (1942). It is good for Pensacola at the Battle of Tassafaronga (November, 1942) and Salt Lake City at Battle of Komandorski Islands (March, 1943)
• Late-war: In 1943 Pensacola had remaining mainmast replaced by deckhouse and short tower. In 1944 Pensacola had shortened foremast, quad 40mm added at bow, rangefinders removed from #1 and #4 main gun mounts, starboard catapult removed, single 20mm replaced by nine twin 20mm.
• Salt Lake City retained the tall foremast and shortened mainmast until the end. At this time she carried nineteen single 20m and six quad 40mm.

Northampton class (note that I separate the fleet flagships Chicago, Houston, and Augusta due to the extended forecastle that is an obvious visual difference): USS Northampton, CA 26, USS Chester, CA 27, and USS Louisville, CA 28
• As-built (about 1930): Large tripod forward mast with large spotting position (although not as large as the Pensacolas), tripod main mast with large searchlight platform, all main gun mounts had range finder “ears” on the side, 4x1 5”/25 anti-aircraft guns aft of the hanger and rear funnel, 2x3 21” TT, no medium anti-aircraft armament, eight single 0.5” machine guns. This version would be appropriate for Bywater’s Great Pacific War
• Mid-1930s: Large spotting position on forward mast replaced by smaller fire control position, fore-funnel raised, TT removed (but location of TTs remained open).
• About 1940: 4x 5”/25 anti-aircraft guns added on top of hanger, four single 3” anti-aircraft guns added (one on each side of the bridge structure, one on each side just aft of the hanger), splinter shielding added around anti-aircraft guns, fire control position added on top of mainmast, fore-funnel returned to original height with cap added to deflect gases from the bridge fire control added to top of mainmast.
• Early war (late 1941 through 1942): 0.5” machine guns replaced with 20mm (and now 12 to 15 mounted), 3” anti-aircraft guns replaced with quad 1.1” mounts. USN 28, CA-26 Northampton (1942) represents this appearance.
• Mid-war (1943 through mid-1944): (Chester and Louisville survivors) bridge and foremast reduced in size and large searchlight platform converted to 20mm locations, main director on roof of bridge replaced by additional 20mm for a total of 19, quad 1.1” mounts replaced by quad 40mm, two twin 40mm added at stern.
• Late-war (mid-1944 through 1945): mainmast removed, lattice mast built around aft funnel, bridge further reduced, two more twin 40mm added just forward of #3 main turret, quad 40mm mounted ahead of #1 main turret, 19 single 20mm replaced with 13 twin 20mm, range finders removed from #1 turret, starboard catapult removed.

Northampton class fleet flagships: USS Chicago, CA 29, USS Houston, CA 30, and USS Augusta, CA 31
• As-built (about 1930): Compared to Northampton, the forecastle extended aft to the catapult supports, providing additional space for flagship personnel. This version would be appropriate for Bywater’s Great Pacific War
• Mid-1930s: Large spotting position on forward mast replaced by smaller fire control position, fore-funnel raised, TT removed (but location of TTs remained open).
• About 1940: 4x 5”/25 anti-aircraft guns added on top of hanger, four single 3” anti-aircraft guns added (one on each side of the bridge structure, one on each side just aft of the hanger), splinter shielding added around anti-aircraft guns, fire control position added on top of mainmast, fore-funnel returned to original height with cap added to deflect gases from the bridge fire control added to top of mainmast.
• Early war (late 1941 through 1942): 0.5” machine guns replaced with 20mm (and now 12 to 15 mounted), 3” anti-aircraft guns replaced with quad 1.1” mounts. Some sources indicate that Houston had only one of the four 3” antiaircraft guns replaced with a quad 1.1” mount before she was lost. USN 84, CA-30 Houston (1942) represents this appearance with four of the quad 1.1”.
• Mid-war (1943 through mid-1944): (Augusta only survivor) bridge and foremast reduced in size and large searchlight platform converted to 20mm locations, quad 1.1” mounts replaced by quad 40mm, two twin 40mm added at stern.
• Late-war (mid-1944 through 1945): mainmast removed, lattice mast built around aft funnel, bridge further reduced, range finders removed from #1 turret, starboard catapult removed.

USS Portland, CA 33: Since this ship and its ”sister” ship, USS Indianapolis, CA 35, had significant differences from the start, I will address each of them separately.
• As-built (about 1933): Compared to Northampton class, the foremast was significantly shorter and the mainmast only a braced pole mast. Initially an open location for torpedo tubes, but no tubes ever fitted. Completed with eight single 5”/25 guns. Compared to Indianapolis, forecastle break between bridge structure and fore funnel, secondary gun controls sided on bridge structure (unlike all other US cruisers of this era). Eight single .50” antiaircraft guns added about 1935.
• About 1940: Location of non-existent torpedo tubes plated over, four more single .50” added, four single 3” antiaircraft guns added, splinter shielding added around anti-aircraft guns.
• From early 1942: Single .50” antiaircraft guns replaced by a total of 13 single 20mm antiaircraft guns, single 3” antiaircraft guns replaced by quad 1.1” antiaircraft guns, fore funnel raised.
• From mid-1943: Bridge wings cut back, secondary gun controls moved from sides of bridge to one on top of bridge and second replacing mainmast just forward of the #3 main gun turret (as on all other US heavy cruisers of the time), fore funnel returned to original height with caps added, new tripod mainmast built up forward of second funnel, quad 40mm antiaircraft guns replaced quad 1.1” antiaircraft guns, two twin 40mm mounts added at stern, aft superstructure reduced, gallery built up for 20mm guns between second funnel and #3 main gun turret, two additional single 20mm added in bow (total of 17 at this time).
• From mid-1944: Two more twin 40mm mounts added aft of 5”/25 mounts, single 20mm mounts removed and replaced by eight twin 20mm mounts. USN68, CA-33 Portland represents this appearance.
USS Indianapolis, CA 35
• As built, as compared to Portland: forecastle break after fore funnel, one secondary gun control on top of bridge structure and second secondary gun control on aft superstructure (like all other US cruisers of this era), eight .50” antiaircraft guns carried from the beginning, no opening for torpedo tubes.
• About 1940: Eight more single .50” antiaircraft guns added, four single 3” antiaircraft guns added, splinter shielding added around anti-aircraft guns.
• From early 1942: Single .50” antiaircraft guns supplanted by six single 20mm and later replaced by a total of 12 single 20mm antiaircraft guns (including two in front of #1 main turret and two at the stern), single 3” antiaircraft guns replaced by quad 1.1” antiaircraft guns.
• From late 1942: Fore funnel cap added, two quad 1.1” mounts replaced 20mm at stern.
• From mid-1943: New tripod mainmast built up forward of second funnel, four quad 40mm antiaircraft guns replaced four of the quad 1.1” antiaircraft guns, two twin 40mm mounts replaced quad 1.1” mounts at the stern, aft superstructure reduced, gallery built up for 20mm guns between second funnel and #3 main gun turret, two additional single 20mm added in bow and one on top of #3 main turret (total of 15 at this time).
• From mid-1944: Two twin 40mm at stern replaced by two quad 40mm, 20mm removed from top of #3 main turret and two 20mm in gallery removed, funnel cap added to aft funnel
• 1945: 12 single 20mm replaced by eight twin 20mm, starboard aircraft catapult removed.

New Orleans-class These differed from the Northampton and Portland classes in length (shorter, to allow heavier armor), main armament mounts (smaller turrets with greater separation between barrels), pole masts only for mainmast and foremast, and midships layout (funnels closer together, catapults aft of funnels, hanger between catapults and #3 gun mount, single 5”/38 guns abreast of bridge and funnels). Note that the secondary guns abreast the funnels were so close to the sides of the hull that arc segment hinged walkways were provided. In harbor these were usually folded up in a vertical position. Underway they hinged down and extended beyond the side of the ship. The seven ships are divided into three sub-groups.
New Orleans class, first group: USS New Orleans, CA 32, USS Astoria, CA 34, and USS Minneapolis, CA 36. The most obvious visual difference from the rest of the class is the shape of the main turret fronts, curved for these three ships, squared-off for the others. Within this group, the New Orleans had an open signal bridge; Astoria and Minneapolis had enclosed signal bridges.
• As completed (about 1934): All main armament turrets had range-finder “ears” on the sides, large bridge wings, initially none but soon after completion eight single 0.50-cal machine guns, large, tall structure between funnels with four searchlights, no splinter shielding for secondary guns. The #5 and #6 guns were slightly farther from the side of the hull and had smaller walkways.
• By early 1942: Cap added to fore funnel, splinter shielding added for 5” guns (now permanently extending beyond sides of the hull), four quad 1.1” antiaircraft mounts added (above the navigation bridge and on fantail), the 0.50-cal machine guns were replaced with single 20mm antiaircraft guns, four additional 20mm guns added. Astoria was lost in this configuration.
• Both New Orleans and Minneapolis were significantly reconstructed after severe damage during the ** CENSORED ** campaign and returned to action in 1943: Bridge structure reduced, 1.1” mounts replaced by quad 40mm and two additional quad 40mm mounts added to hanger roof, searchlight tower reduced and two searchlights removed, 12 additional single 20mm mounts added, starboard crane removed. GHQ USN101,CA36, Minneapolis, late-war is a close match to this.
• 1945: Rangefinder removed from #1 mount, port catapult removed. Antiaircraft differed – New Orleans had 28 single 20mm and six quad 40mm; Minneapolis had 9 twin 20mm, six quad 40mm and one twin 40mm (on #2 main gun mount). GHQUSN101, CA 36 can be modified to this appearance with minor modifications.
New Orleans class, second group: USS Tuscaloosa, CA 37 and USS San Francisco, CA 38. The most obvious visual difference from the first group is the shape of the main turret fronts, flat for these ships. One difference within this group is that the Tuscaloosa had the #7 and #8 5”/25 gun mounts farther from the side of the hull while on San Francisco the #5 and #6 mounts were farther inboard, as on the first group.
• As completed (about 1934): All main armament turrets had range-finder “ears” on the sides, large bridge wings, initially none but soon after completion eight single 0.50-cal machine guns, large, tall structure between funnels with four searchlights, no splinter shielding for secondary guns.
• By early 1942: Cap added to fore funnel, splinter shielding added for 5” guns (now permanently extending beyond sides of the hull), four quad 1.1” antiaircraft mounts added (above the navigation bridge and on fantail), the 0.50-cal machine guns were replaced with single 20mm antiaircraft guns, four additional 20mm guns added. GHQ’s USN15, CA-38 San Francisco represents this appearance.
• San Francisco was significantly reconstructed after severe damage during the ** CENSORED ** campaign and returned to action in 1943: Bridge structure reduced, 1.1” mounts replaced by quad 40mm and two additional quad 40mm mounts added to hanger roof, searchlight tower reduced and two searchlights removed, 12 additional single 20mm mounts added, starboard crane removed. Similar alterations to Tuscaloosa at about the same time.
• 1945: Rangefinder removed from #1 mount, port catapult removed from San Francisco. Antiaircraft differed – both had six quad40 mm, Tuscaloosa 16 twin 20mm; San Francisco had 26 single 20mm.
New Orleans class, third group: USS Quincy, CA 39 and USS Vincennes, CA 44. The most obvious visual difference from the first group is the location of the #1 main gun mount, which was moved aft by 9 feet. This reduced the length of the armor belt (allowing thicker armor on the rest of the belt). The deck below the #2 mount was reduced so that the barbette was revealed. Combination of moving the mount and reducing the deck resulted in a slightly reduced arc of fire for the #1 mount. The bridge structure was also reduced compared to the as-built appearance of the other groups. There was no platform on the aft face of the hanger, as on the other groups of this class.
• As completed (about 1936): Initially none but soon after completion eight single 0.50-cal machine guns, large, tall structure between funnels with four searchlights, no splinter shielding for secondary guns.
• Before loss in August, 1942: Cap added to fore funnel, splinter shielding added for 5” guns (now permanently extending beyond sides of the hull), four quad 1.1” antiaircraft mounts added (above the navigation bridge and on fantail), the 0.50-cal machine guns were replaced with single 20mm antiaircraft guns, four additional 20mm guns added.
USS Wichita, CA 45:
• As completed (about 1939): Bridge structure smaller than in New Orleans class, but still relatively large. Light antiaircraft limited to only eight 0.50cal machine guns.
• By 1942: Two quad 1.1” antiaircraft mounts added and 0.50cal machine guns replaced by 20mm.
• Late 1943: Bridge structure reduced (to reduce topweight and provide better sky arcs), 1.1” mounts replaced by quad 40mm, two additional quad 40mm mounts, two twin 40mm mounts and twelve additional 20 mm added.
• 1945: Two additional twin 40mm mounts added at stern, four 20mm mounts removed. USN75, CS-45 Wichita seems to represent this appearance.

Don S.

[ww2navyguy]

Don,

Thanks for the detailed US cruiser information. Great stuff.

So, to summarize, which specific GHQ model do you use for each individual US WW2 cruiser for each of the listed cruise classes? It sounds like you might be mixing and matching different GHQ kits for each ship within each class.

Even the recent late war CA Minneapolis model is confusing for the New Orleans class ships.

Thanks for any help on this matter.